1964 Thunderbird Switched Electrical Source Locations

[Shadrack]

Hello everyone,

I have ordered the electrical manual for my 64...but apparently it is on backorder. I just got the body manual in and I hate all the watermarks - hope the electrical one is that marked or it will be hard to read.

Here is my question. Where are some good solid switched electrical sources under the hood? As I untangle this wiring mess I am working on accessors and so forth and need some good solid locations under the hood. Also, if you know of some inside the car that are easily assessable I would love to know that as well. I know there is one in the fuse box, but since the box needs a rebuild I don't want to overload it.

I am wanting to get my gently used MSD box and choke hooked up correctly. Thanks!

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[fordrodsteven]

Off the top of my head the only switched source I can think of under the hood is the "run" circuit for power to the coil. You have said in other posts that you have no issues with running wires to fix things. You could run a wire (switched) from someplace / something under the dash and feed it to a relay. Then the relay would be the only thing you are switching on. You could then run a dedicated wire from the battery to be the feed to a small fuse box. You could attach a small aftermarket fuse box to the relay and the relay would switch the fuse box on and off for you. Any wires you run would then also be fused circuits through that fuse box. That way the relay would do all the "heavy lifting" and have minimal draw on the switched circuit you are taking from. Directly off the ignition switch would be my preference but we both know something has been hacked on that circuit in your car.

 

[Shadrack]

Off the top of my head the only switched source I can think of under the hood is the "run" circuit for power to the coil. You have said in other posts that you have no issues with running wires to fix things. You could run a wire (switched) from someplace / something under the dash and feed it to a relay. Then the relay would be the only thing you are switching on. You could then run a dedicated wire from the battery to be the feed to a small fuse box. You could attach a small aftermarket fuse box to the relay and the relay would switch the fuse box on and off for you. Any wires you run would then also be fused circuits through that fuse box. That way the relay would do all the "heavy lifting" and have minimal draw on the switched circuit you are taking from. Directly off the ignition switch would be my preference but we both know something has been hacked on that circuit in your car.

Could I come off the wire from the run circuit lol? I am learning here lol, what sort of relay should I get? Lets say I want to use my MSD, choke, stereo (at some point)? Thanks for all the help!

Since my ignition switch is hacked up I hate to pull off of it- do you or anyone else know a good internal switched source other than the ignition?

Thanks in advance guys!

 

[fordrodsteven]

Could I come off the wire from the run circuit lol? I am learning here lol, what sort of relay should I get? Lets say I want to use my MSD, choke, stereo (at some point)? Thanks for all the help!

Since my ignition switch is hacked up I hate to pull off of it- do you or anyone else know a good internal switched source other than the ignition?

Thanks in advance guys!

You need to be cautious pulling from the run circuit. There is a red-green wire that comes off the ignition which changes to a pink resistance wire and then goes back to red-green feeding to the coil. The way it works is the car starts on 12V then when the ignition is in the "run" position it is feeding through the resistance wire and the car runs on 6V. This helps the points last longer without burning up. If you want to hook into the "run" circuit you need to do it before it feeds into the pink wire. I'll look at the wiring diagram to see what other points I can suggest for tapping into "switched" power.

 

[fordrodsteven]

Could I come off the wire from the run circuit lol? I am learning here lol, what sort of relay should I get? Lets say I want to use my MSD, choke, stereo (at some point)? Thanks for all the help!

Since my ignition switch is hacked up I hate to pull off of it- do you or anyone else know a good internal switched source other than the ignition?

Thanks in advance guys!

Remember the diagram I sketched up for you, showing the fuse box and wiring color codes? I personally would tap into the Black-Green wire where it is feeding into the fuse box and then run to a homemade combination relay, fuse box thing like I talked about earlier. You could set up a couple relays feeding into a small fuse box so not to try to pull too much amperage through the original harness. Like I said earlier you could then take power directly from the battery to feed the "switched" homemade relay, fuse box fuses. If you tap into any of the other "switched" items on the car (say for example if you tapped into the Orange-Yellow that feeds the flasher) you are then adding amperage pulling through the fuse in the main fuse box. It might start blowing the fuse if you added items to that wire and turned on two or three things at one time.

 

[Shadrack]

Remember the diagram I sketched up for you, showing the fuse box and wiring color codes? I personally would tap into the Black-Green wire where it is feeding into the fuse box and then run to a homemade combination relay, fuse box thing like I talked about earlier. You could set up a couple relays feeding into a small fuse box so not to try to pull too much amperage through the original harness. Like I said earlier you could then take power directly from the battery to feed the "switched" homemade relay, fuse box fuses. If you tap into any of the other "switched" items on the car (say for example if you tapped into the Orange-Yellow that feeds the flasher) you are then adding amperage pulling through the fuse in the main fuse box. It might start blowing the fuse if you added items to that wire and turned on two or three things at one time.

That was art! Yes, I have it printed and laminated. Would you mind to help me figure out a relay I should use? I am a big fan of Amazon, but I am willing to buy wherever. I am still learning about all of this, watching videos on relays and all that. So, I would run switched power to a relay, then power a small fuse box with the relay powering it. I don't think that I will power much, just MSD, CHOKE, maybe a small led here or there. So, I guess, what should I look for in a relay?

 

[Shadrack]

Remember the diagram I sketched up for you, showing the fuse box and wiring color codes? I personally would tap into the Black-Green wire where it is feeding into the fuse box and then run to a homemade combination relay, fuse box thing like I talked about earlier. You could set up a couple relays feeding into a small fuse box so not to try to pull too much amperage through the original harness. Like I said earlier you could then take power directly from the battery to feed the "switched" homemade relay, fuse box fuses. If you tap into any of the other "switched" items on the car (say for example if you tapped into the Orange-Yellow that feeds the flasher) you are then adding amperage pulling through the fuse in the main fuse box. It might start blowing the fuse if you added items to that wire and turned on two or three things at one time.

Hey Steve!

I found an interesting kit that seems like it might serve my purposes, attached is the link to the kit and the manual:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00062Z5VG/?tag=thunderbirdforum-20

I would take it that in my case(per the manual) the "hot side of the fuse," would be the black-green wire - in this kit this is where I would connect the pink wire that comes in the kit at(maybe add in an inline 15 amp fuse just in case). Then I would run a tap off of the battery to a circuit breaker, then a wire to a relay, then a wire from the relay to the fuse panel to energize it. Oh and, ground it to a good body ground or even battery.

I would rather not pay 80+ bucks for this kit, but it would seem relays can get expenseive. While it looks nice and provides lots of power, do you think I could DIY it cheaper/maybe better? If you think it would be safer to go with a kit like this I am more than willing to do it though.

I am just unsure of what sort of relays to buy and this kit looks simple but I would still like to homebrew -diy - it if I can.

Thanks!
Don

 

[fordrodsteven]

Hey Steve!

I found an interesting kit that seems like it might serve my purposes, attached is the link to the kit and the manual:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00062Z5VG/?tag=thunderbirdforum-20

I would take it that in my case(per the manual) the "hot side of the fuse," would be the black-green wire - in this kit this is where I would connect the pink wire that comes in the kit at(maybe add in an inline 15 amp fuse just in case). Then I would run a tap off of the battery to a circuit breaker, then a wire to a relay, then a wire from the relay to the fuse panel to energize it. Oh and, ground it to a good body ground or even battery.

I would rather not pay 80+ bucks for this kit, but it would seem relays can get expenseive. While it looks nice and provides lots of power, do you think I could DIY it cheaper/maybe better? If you think it would be safer to go with a kit like this I am more than willing to do it though.

I am just unsure of what sort of relays to buy and this kit looks simple but I would still like to homebrew -diy - it if I can.

Thanks!
Don

That unit you showed (from Painless) is quite a bit more than you described as for your desire to have a small switched power source for hooking up just a few items. I can try to do a little research and come up with a sketch and suggested hardware list for you. It might take me a few days though.
Technically if you are talking about just a couple of circuits (MSD, LED lights, electric choke) you could just come off the two spare fuse spots on the original fuse box. I understood you to say that you kind of wanted to stay away from that due to the existing corrosion. You could run the MSD and choke off one fuse and the LED random lights off the other fuse.

 

[fordrodsteven]

I found this on E-bay. At $15 it's a bit less money than the painless unit. It has two relays and eight fuses. You could wire half of it switched and half of it constant power. You can mount it anywhere convenient and tap off eight new circuits for your enjoyment. For power source to the relay I would still come off the wires feeding into the fuse box (Black-Green switched power and Black-Yellow constant power) to feed the relay(s)
https://www.ebay.com/itm/12V-Car-Au...308499?hash=item4200907453:g:46UAAOSwvApaTJz4

 

[Shadrack]

That unit you showed (from Painless) is quite a bit more than you described as for your desire to have a small switched power source for hooking up just a few items. I can try to do a little research and come up with a sketch and suggested hardware list for you. It might take me a few days though.
Technically if you are talking about just a couple of circuits (MSD, LED lights, electric choke) you could just come off the two spare fuse spots on the original fuse box. I understood you to say that you kind of wanted to stay away from that due to the existing corrosion. You could run the MSD and choke off one fuse and the LED random lights off the other fuse.

Hey Steve,
I keep learning and learning from you. I think I am going to try and rebuild my fuse box. I ordered new fuse clips and am going to try my "technique," on a junkyard part first. I am hoping to have the box cleaned up nicely.

 

[Shadrack]

I found this on E-bay. At $15 it's a bit less money than the painless unit. It has two relays and eight fuses. You could wire half of it switched and half of it constant power. You can mount it anywhere convenient and tap off eight new circuits for your enjoyment. For power source to the relay I would still come off the wires feeding into the fuse box (Black-Green switched power and Black-Yellow constant power) to feed the relay(s)
https://www.ebay.com/itm/12V-Car-Au...308499?hash=item4200907453:g:46UAAOSwvApaTJz4

Hey Steve!
GREAT FIND!!!! Should I be concerned that it is from China? I mean most things are made there anyways these days, looks very nice. This is a much cheaper solution and it looks perfect. I don't so much want all that "extra power," but I figure while I am running wires I might as well get the most bang for my buck.

I want to learn about the relays - also circuit breakers - Where would be a good place to start. I don't know the difference between them really other than relays seem to switch flow on and off when called for circuits trip but reset when too much flow is detected - probably mangled that.

Thanks again Steve !

Don

 

[fordrodsteven]

Years ago before this thing called the internet Hot Rod magazine made a series of magazines regarding how-to's on almost everything. I learned a lot about basic fuel systems, basic electircal systems, ignition systems, paint and bodywork.

You could do some searches and probably find information on basic wiring items on you tube. That would be where I would probably start and you will probably find some very useful information there.

regarding relays and circuit breakers. The relays can be switched so as to turn another circuit on / off and not draw full amperage through the switching media. Circuit breakers are sometimes self -resetting or you need to manually reset them. Some people prefer the manual type because if somethings wrong it will no be trying to keep resetting a circuit and possibly cause some other problems.

 

[Shadrack]

Years ago before this thing called the internet Hot Rod magazine made a series of magazines regarding how-to's on almost everything. I learned a lot about basic fuel systems, basic electircal systems, ignition systems, paint and bodywork.

You could do some searches and probably find information on basic wiring items on you tube. That would be where I would probably start and you will probably find some very useful information there.

regarding relays and circuit breakers. The relays can be switched so as to turn another circuit on / off and not draw full amperage through the switching media. Circuit breakers are sometimes self -resetting or you need to manually reset them. Some people prefer the manual type because if somethings wrong it will no be trying to keep resetting a circuit and possibly cause some other problems.

Gotcha - I learned something else new today. Now off to YouTube to learn more.

 

[fordrodsteven]

Hey Steve!
GREAT FIND!!!! Should I be concerned that it is from China? I mean most things are made there anyways these days, looks very nice. This is a much cheaper solution and it looks perfect. I don't so much want all that "extra power," but I figure while I am running wires I might as well get the most bang for my buck.

I want to learn about the relays - also circuit breakers - Where would be a good place to start. I don't know the difference between them really other than relays seem to switch flow on and off when called for circuits trip but reset when too much flow is detected - probably mangled that.

Thanks again Steve !

Don

Hi Don,
Re: the relays / switches from China, I feel that for the 97 satisfied customers there are the three that you hear complaints. I have bought defective stuff that was made in the USA as well as defective stuff from anywhere else in the world. Usually whatever I buy is good stuff so I don't get thrown by it all. I wouldn't hesitate for a second to buy the part I referenced.
Steve

 

[fordrodsteven]

Gotcha - I learned something else new today. Now off to YouTube to learn more.

The only caveat I would give regarding information off of you tube is that sometimes the people putting together those videos are boneheads. I cringe when I see someone drilling something whilst holding it in their bare hand and not wearing safety glasses. Or guys welding and not wearing a welding mask. Whatever you do just be careful and think logically as you move along when working on something. As in wiring checks that connections are solid and hooked up properly before applying power to them. I usually check and recheck when I put things together. If I'm not 100% certain in some wiring I use a temporary in-line fuse of low amperage in the circuit. Once it's proved out and working as I want then I remove the temporary fuse.

 

[Shadrack]

The only caveat I would give regarding information off of you tube is that sometimes the people putting together those videos are boneheads. I cringe when I see someone drilling something whilst holding it in their bare hand and not wearing safety glasses. Or guys welding and not wearing a welding mask. Whatever you do just be careful and think logically as you move along when working on something. As in wiring checks that connections are solid and hooked up properly before applying power to them. I usually check and recheck when I put things together. If I'm not 100% certain in some wiring I use a temporary in-line fuse of low amperage in the circuit. Once it's proved out and working as I want then I remove the temporary fuse.

Absolutely, I will do. AND - I promise not more smoke shows lol! 🙂

 

[Shadrack]

That unit you showed (from Painless) is quite a bit more than you described as for your desire to have a small switched power source for hooking up just a few items. I can try to do a little research and come up with a sketch and suggested hardware list for you. It might take me a few days though.
Technically if you are talking about just a couple of circuits (MSD, LED lights, electric choke) you could just come off the two spare fuse spots on the original fuse box. I understood you to say that you kind of wanted to stay away from that due to the existing corrosion. You could run the MSD and choke off one fuse and the LED random lights off the other fuse.

Hey Steve,
Would a unit like the one from Painless allow a stereo with 4 speakers to be hooked up as well? Nothing crazy, just a small head unit hidden with Bluetooth - Just thinking of the future.
Thanks!

 

[fordrodsteven]

Hey Steve,
Would a unit like the one from Painless allow a stereo with 4 speakers to be hooked up as well? Nothing crazy, just a small head unit hidden with Bluetooth - Just thinking of the future.
Thanks!

If you are replacing the original radio in the car you could just use the power that feeds to the radio from the fuse box. You can install a fuse larger than the 7.5A fuse that is there from the factory if you need to. If you are replacing the original radio you can just use the wiring harness connections at the radio. You will have switched power, bezel lighting, ground and possibly speaker wires right there unless you choose to upgrade the speaker wires then just don't use those from the harness.

 

[Shadrack]

If you are replacing the original radio in the car you could just use the power that feeds to the radio from the fuse box. You can install a fuse larger than the 7.5A fuse that is there from the factory if you need to. If you are replacing the original radio you can just use the wiring harness connections at the radio. You will have switched power, bezel lighting, ground and possibly speaker wires right there unless you choose to upgrade the speaker wires then just don't use those from the harness.

I have not decided on what to do yet. I even thought about one of those conversions - like you send off your am radio and they rebuild it and give it AUX and bluetooth. A stereo will go in at some point. Thank you for the very valuable information!

 

[Shadrack]

I was wondering, I did buy the relay kit for my Pertronix and their coil. If I ran a box like the painless or the Chinese box, could power it from there and return the relay and wiring for the pertronix since I am not installed it yet? I do not see why I could not, but maybe you guys could think of a reason?