Cooling system

[Traci818]

I have a 2003 T-Bird that is on it's 3rd thermostat, 2nd water bottle, and 2nd radiator hose, It still runs hot and the fan kicks in after driving 10 miles rain, shine, summer, winter. The dealership is trying to tell me that I shouldn't keep adding water and act generally surprised when it overheats after 3 weeks of me not adding water every two days... Anyone else having problems with the cooling system or have any ideas on what might be making it run so hot. 😕

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[Ed Martin]

In days of old this would have all the signs of a possible blown head gasket.With todays engines I'm not to sure .I would try an independent shop as the dealers can't cure the problem.Years ago you would look for the tell-tale bubbles in the radiator.

 

[George]

There have been a few that have had thermosat issues. That may be the least expensive item to try, but doesn't seem to solve the issue. Possible need a pressure test on the system??

Utilize the search function above to look for other potentials. But keep us informed please

 

[George]

Sorry double post

 

[George]

Traci:
Bear with me, I've been doing some searching elsewhere and the following posts are copied from other sources. So take from it what you can:

Here's a person that had an issue and explains what he did:
"When the check engine light comes on and they check it out on their computer it will show code 1289 and 1299 to fix the problem replace the Hydraulic fan and this will fix the problem, they said it would be $1000.00 to fix . So, instead, I called my friend that is a Service manager at the Lincoln Dealer and he said to start the engine and take off the cap let it run for while until the fluid runs over the top for a couple minutes , bring up the rpm and add a little coolant put the cap on and Drive it , that was 2,567 miles ago and it has Not over heated since, but it took two weeks for the light to go out, I am not saying it will fix your problem but it is worth a try."

Here's another potential solution:

" An '03 overheated on Friday night. Since I had turned the climate control off the fan was not forced to run and the switch did turn it on as it should.
The next morning (Sat) I turned on the climate control and did all the running around in town, no problems at all.
Sunday I drove and had not problems.
Monday I drove and the temperature went to the top again and then came right back down. After I got home I considered replacing the thermostat, but started reading the maintenance instructions and decided to take it to the dealer instead. (I was getting ready to take a 2500 mile trip and wanted to have the problem fixed)
The dealer ran test, checked the pressure, drove the car and could not make it act up.
They said that they “BURPED” the cooling system. From what I understand, they ran the engine with the cap off the radiator and got an air bubble out of the system.
I drove the car every day from then until I left for my trip and it never overheated again.
I left on the 13th of September and returned on the 25th after driving 2500 miles and never had any problems."

 

[George]

Here is what a mechanic did:
"When the AC is on the fan is running. With the AC off the fan is thermostatly controled. Meaning the engine temp hit a preset and the fan will kick on. Once cooled it shuts off. Again if the AC is on the fan will stay running. Now with that said if the ICRM failed to kick the fan it may cause it to overheat. Another is a simple one a defective thermostat or radiator hose. I'd doubt a water pump. Just ran Oasis no TSB/SSM,but they did bring up one point. Be sure it has the right coolant in it.
Meaning did someone mix old style coolant in with the newer 100,000 mile coolant. If that happens it turn to a jelly. Have only seen this once on a truck after Jiffy Lube worked on the vehicle.
And Yes, the AC in the run position will run the fan continuously, but I bet the emergency cooling aspect might be overshadowed by the extra load the AC puts on the engine."

Here's another that had the thermostat chnaged and continued to have a problem:
"As for your overheating issues, I experienced a problem that had the shop baffled for a while. Just before they fixed it, I had found that when the temp started to go up, I could turn off the A/C and the temp would come down. Would turn the AC back on and the temp would go up, if I left it, she would go all the way into alarm mode and then 4 cyl. mode!
Up till that time I had left the A/C set to auto. I was able to do the above cycles while sitting at the shop door when they came over to check me in.

The problem: a broken thermostat! Apparently a piece of the thermostat had gotten down inside and was intermittently blocking the flow of coolant. Since they fixed it, I have had no further problems."

FYI: I am putting this data in separate postings since each post has a limit as to the number of letters/words. But, I'll continue to look for more data for you and post as I find it.

 

[George]

Here’s my final posting of what I have found related to overheating. This one for a 2003 and 2004:

“Joined the overheat club yesterday on my 2004 with 24k miles. Car overheated and went into limp-home mode. I stopped, and let it cool a bit (was bubbling in the overflow). When I restarted the car, no fans, until I turned on the AC. That started them and the temperature went back to normal in seconds. Since then the car is running ok, whether AC is on or not, but check engine light is on, so it must have thrown codes. Off to Ford it goes.
Answer:
Dealer called, said all they could find was some air in the system. They purged that and said it seems to be working fine. I'm skeptical, we'll see if it behaves itself now.”

2003 with heating problem:
“After having a new thermostat replaced at the dealership, I continued to have the, what I called, false overheat. Turned out I had a hairline fracture in the coolant bottle. Dealership said it was a major job to replace, that they had to remove the fender to get to it. My independent mechanic rolled his eyes at that, and replaced it in about 20 minutes. The crack was barely visable and thinner than a hair, but was enough to reduce the pressure. That was two years ago and it hasn't happened since.”

 

[Traci818]

Thank you

Thank you for all the research... I'm beginning to think it's the head gasket since it's overheated so many times on me thoughout the years. The last round of fan problems started around the time my coils went out. It hasn't been the same since and they say it's a different issue.

I got it back yesterday after they replaced the hose which had a hairline crack in the hard plastic part. The fan is still kicking on after I drive it a mile or two. I do always have the air on, I live in California... but the fan kicking on constantly has not always happened and it's relatively cool and raining now. One would expect this to happen in the summer.

The comment regarding the air bubbles helps explain why they told me to stop adding water because it would let air in and I they needed to bleed the system after water was added. At least I can "bleed" it myself now. Because not adding water seemed like very stupid advice to give someone who's car keeps overheating and seems to be "drinking" water. I will turn off the air and see if it helps, but am not happy with the noise from the fan. I feel like I'm driving a vacuem cleaner. Will keep you posted... I don't think this is over yet.

 

[George]

Traci: Some have had problems with the fans as well. Hopefully it can be tested. I'll see what I can find out about fans.
The ones I know of were replaced under warranty. But you may be out of warranty by now.

 

[George]

Traci:
I know you said you had an '03 but here's some data about a noisy fan. If your car is a early '03it could have the same fan module as the '02's. So you may want to share this info with your dealer. It's a "TSB" Tech Service Bulletin 15588. See copied data below:

TSB data for: 2002 FORD THUNDERBIRD
Bulletin Number: 15588
Sequence Number: 630144
Date: 20020101
Component Name: 062000 ENGINE AND ENGINE COOLING:COOLING SYSTEM
Make: FORD
Model: THUNDERBIRD
Year: 2002
Summary:
SOME VEHICLES EQUIPPED WITH 3.9L V8 ENGINE ONLY, MAY EXHIBIT A RATTLING NOISE FROM THE HYDRAULIC COOLING FAN PUMP. *TT

 

[George]

More info found. It's on an '02 but it may be a clue to your solution since it sounds like a similar issue:

Background - Bird overheated due to bad fan at about 800 miles went into rotating cylinder cooling mode. Fan replaced.
7-31-03- Well the dealer had the Bird on Friday thru Tuesday....need to replace the fan assy. Got it back, still having a wirring noise when it heats up. Wed. I got out of work early and drove it around until the noise started again then went directly to the dealer left it on and got the shop manager who in turn got a mechanic.... It's in the shop again today for a POWER STEARING PUMP which was making the noise
I think the first time it overheated must have brought out all the weak components
Well, I finally got the Bird back on Friday 8/1 they got the correct pwr steering pump and installed it , they said it might still have some air in the line which would cause it to make the same sound but driving it should clear it up.Well I drove it Sat. morning and it still made the noise along with a loud whining noise ( sounded like it had a blower ).
On the way home in traffic..... THE ENGINE OVERHEATED AGAIN. So it was back to the shop this morning.
This is going to be the third fan replacement unless they find out what the problem really is.


I finally got the BIRD back and it seems to be running fine. The end result ( after contacting tech support ) was the replacement of a high pressure line for the cooling fan, it obviously wasn't turning fast enough.
I had no noise from the power steering , the transmission didn't seem to slip and no additional wierd noises and the temp guage stayed just below center.
Just need one hot day over 88 degrees to be absolutely sure.
I think the simple on or off the an electric fan is much better than all the the hydraulic stuff.

Traci, I hope some of this stuff is helpful

 

[Traci818]

Thank you George

Thank you so much this is very helpful...

I'm going to bring this back to the dealer and ask them to check out the fan before I take it to another Mechanic... Why is it you are able to give me answers when they can't???? Who do you talk to when service gives you the run around??? Is there a contact for the manufactur's or dealer? How do I find that?

 

[George]

TRACI:
The answers you get here (from me) do not necessarily mean that they are correct. I'm just trying to help others with info I hear from other owners that have had issues.
They may not know because there were so few of these TBirds manufacyured. About 63,000. However, some have found that Lincoln dealers know more about them then their cousin, Ford dealers , since the entire drive train came from the Lincoln LS.
If you are dis-satisfied with Ford and have a Lincoln daler close by, they have to honor warranties. If there are none they certainly are able to service your car, as a Ford family member.
I hope this helps...BTW, I believe (think)that there are 800 numbers in the owners book if you need them

 

[Traci818]

Thanks George

I took your posts to the dealer and spoke with customer service and the shop foreman who gave me a rental car and promised to check out the head gasket and the high pressure line as well as spending a bit of time researching the matter. (which they have not yet done)

I don't want to give up on this car so I hope they find out whatever it wrong! I really appreciate all your time and help.
Traci

 

[Traci818]

Update

Car has been in the shop since Thursday. They are doing stress tests and now believe it is somehow related to the coils and a temperature sensor (not the thermostat). They think they are getting close. I hope they are. Really do appreciate this forum and will let you know the outcome... Thanks again.

 

[George]

Thanks Traci for the update. I'm sure they'll find your problem.
I thought that the "burping" of the system in post number 5 may be it, but with some of these cars having repeated coil issues, it's worth having them look there as well.
At least it's into service and you have a service order, in the event you have repeat issues, which I hope you do not
Keep us posted, please

 

[Traci818]

Update

It's been almost 2 weeks, they replaced the heat sensor, the foreman took it home for a test drive and is now back on the phone with the Ford Tech's to see what else it may be... meanwhile they have me in a rental car... which beats picking it up and dropping it off each time it breaks down... hopefully they find it soon!!!!!

 

[George]

Thanks for keeping us in the loop. The longer it takes the more curious I am as to what the problem is...😕

 

[Traci818]

They think they found it

They originally thought it was the heat sensor... pulled the manifold out replaced it and it was still not working, they removed the radiator and flushed and clean it... still no luck, ran it with and without the themostate and still the fan was getting false reads when monitored with a laptop. The fan was running a full power without shutting off. The filed service engineer came back out and took a look and said that the heat sensor is very sensitive and malfunctions if it is touching metal. So they removed the manifold again and trimed the ends of the sensor so it would not hit the board. They say it is not running up to 204 without the fan kicking on light fan on at 215 which goes down to 199 when the airconditioner is on. after 3 weeks in the shop I picked it up yesterday and so far it's quiet. I smell a little hot plastic off the engine but have drivin it about 30 miles so far without issue. Hopefully this is it. Thanks for all your help!

 

[George]

That is great news Traci....Maybe in a few weeks get back to us to tell us that, that was the final solution. 😀
Best of luck!!