Just My Imagination ?

[ZBird]

I feel quite strange posting this question, but I'm curious to know if anyone else experienced this odd sensation. I drive the Bird very conservatively, but you can't avoid an occassional mild dip or bump in the road. Maybe it's my imagination, but my senses tell me the car is "twisting" in the middle when the front tires are on a different plane than the rear tires. I even hear a little creaking noise to support the feeling. It seems to happen even when I ride up the apron of my driveway entrance. I hope it is just an illusion caused by the hardtop somewhat "floating" on the car's body. My worst fear is that the car's frame is poorly designed. I recall reading a BB posting months ago by an '02 Bird owner whose car actually bent as it was raised on a hydraulic lift incorrectly. I have trouble understanding how this is even possible with a properly-designed frame. Any comments?

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[captjim]

Try using the search function and type in "cowl shake". There was quite a bit of discussion on this issue. At one point some owners and dealers retorqued the frame cross braces and that fixed the problem. That was the recommendation I got when I visited the plant in Wixom. Subsequently, it is my understanding that the factory is saying don't retorque because they use lock-tight on the bolts. I'd take your T-Bird back to the dealer. They will hopefully understand the problem, retorque (46 ft-lbs if my memory serves me correctly) with lock-tight applied to the bolts.

Jim

 

[ZBird]

Thanks, captjim. I've never heard of "cowl shake" before. Then again, this is my first convertible. I've found it to be very noticeable on my car...even with the hardtop on. I will have the dealership check it out in the spring.

 

[blue2u]

Last reports from those that recently took
the Wixom tour, Dave Davis has advised
"absolutely do NOT retorque" the braces.

All convertibles have "some" cowl shake. However, the TBird's is so minimal as compared to many other makes, I would
personally "leave well enough alone".

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[ZBird]

blue2u: Per captjim's suggestion, I did a search on "cowl shake" with respect to the T-Birds. I was somewhat disturbed when most reviews reported little or no cowl with the hardtop on. "Little" is a relative term, but I have only prior non-convertibles to compare it with. To me, the degree of cowl that I perceive in my car is bothersome. It gives me a sense that the car is falling apart in the middle. Maybe it takes a bit geting used to. Could it do harm to the drive-train? Shouldn't I at least get the dealership's recommendation?

 

[tbird2003]

I’ve driven convertibles for the last 17 years. My first was an 85 Mustang; my current daily drive is a 96 GT Convertible and I just picked up a 03 T-bird. Of all the convertibles I’ve owned, the T-Bird is by far the most solid. In the short time I’ve had to drive the car, I’ve had no problems with any noticeable cowl or shake and I’ve put the car through her paces both on the interstate and on backroads.

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TBird2003
03 Torch Red with Perf. White Top and Full Red Accent
1996 4.6L Mustang GT Conv. with performance enhancements

 

[Lyle]

I think that this is something worth checking into carefully. My first convertible was an RX-7 and I did not detect any cowl shake similar to what you mention. If you are noticing a problem it is worth having checked.
Lyle

 

[Blueoil1]

I have an early production 2002. I noticed cowl shake and had my dealer re-torque the "X" brace. The re-torque was done at the 3,000-mile mark. I have not had any problem since. The Bird has 7,200 miles now.
The early cowl shake problem was noticeable with and without the hardtop. The Hardtop adds zero structural integrity to the car. Even with the hardtop on, it's still a convertible......
I agree with Lyle; have your dealer check it out.


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2002 Triple Black
Premium
#1760

 

[ZBird]

I'm not sure I understand the factory's expressed concern with retorquing the "X" brace bolts because of the applied Loctite. Is it because attempting to do so could break or damage the nuts/bolts? Or is it because the benefit of the factory-applied Loctite will be lost? Excuse my ignorance, but can't the nuts/bolts be either replaced or new Loctite applied after tightening?


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[LON O'CONNELL]

Exactly ZBird. I was the one that originally posted the loose x-brace hardware. My car is a very early 02, VIN 1396, rotation# 936. I removed the bolts one at a time after discovering they were loose, cleaning the bolt threads & the female threads and then applying Loctite primer to both. Then installed the bolt with Loctite & torqued to 46 ft. lbs. Then moved on to the next bolt so on & so on. I made sure the car was sitting flat footed so as not to torque any twist into the frame etc. My cowl shake is all but gone except for the roughest of roads.

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Yellow/Yellow Prem. 02 Bird w/full accent
1999 F150 Super Cab 4x4 Off Road
1998 Taurus SE Sport 24V

 

[captjim]

The question is why would the factory endorse retorquing the x braces then later warn against doing so? My postulated answer is quite simple. We've got some pretty bright, mechanically inclined folks here on this site and probably some who wouldn't know which end of the torque wrench to hammer with! Those folks wouldn't know lok-tite if someone poured it on them.

With that in mind you can easily see how the factory folks needed to take a conservative position and warn against retorquing. There is little doubt in my mind that some of the early T-Birds were not properly torqued. Hopefully they've now corrected the problem for the most part but that doesn't mean one may slip through now and then. Best advice is still see the dealer!
Jim

 

[Terry]

My understanding is just early '02s had a problem with loosening of the X-brace bolts but factory corrected and now uses the "locktite" material mentioned. Retorquing not recommended or needed on these newer'02s and '03s. Retorquing would have to break the bond. You would have to replace the nuts and clean the bolt threads to ensure proper torque readings as well as replace the permanant type "loctite". I would examine closely for signs of movement,( rubbing ,etc) that would indicate the type of looseness needed for noticable cowl shake. An automotive engineer friend some years ago told me torquing/twisting is common on all convertibles due to the inability to get the rigid upper body x-bracing afforded by a hard top. Even some coupes without the the A-B-C pillar rigidity of a sedan can demonstrate some of this. Convertible 'Vettes were notorious for this. Heavy enough bracing to eliminate all might be too costly from a weight standpoint. If you have a lot , I'd give the dealer a chance to ckeck it under warranty.

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[Birthday Bird]

Even though I have not received my new Bird yet I have driven them and they do have some cowl shake. That is the nature of a unibody vehicle with no supporting roof structure. I have owned various Mustangs over the years, a 66, 83, 85, 98 and currently a 1999 Cobra droptop. They all have cowl shake. Some were worse than others. The tightest one I have ever driven is my sons Miata.
A young daughter of a co-worker summed it up best. She said the fronter doesn't know what the rearender is doing. She was speaking of her Jack Russell Terrier sliding on the hard wood floor as the dog raced through their home. To the point, cowl shake will always be present but should not be excessive in your new T-Bird.

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Birthday Bird