2004 Limp mode problems

[JRalph]

My 2004 T-Bird (24,000 miles) went into limp mode and the Ford agency said it was a throttle body but after they replaced that, it still didn't run right and went into limp mode again, immediately. Then they said that there is a bad module but they can't seem to find one and don't know when they might get one. I am wondering if I needed a throttle body in the first place ($1,600) and does anyone know anything about a module that would get me back on the road?

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[j&d]

I don't think you have to wonder, it wasn't the throttle body!!

 

[biddle]

1- You need an OBDII Code reader to see what error codes are being shown.

2. What module? That's pretty generic term. Get a part number or specific part name.

3. Rule out COPS as the problem.

4. I'd be angry if I paid 1600.00 to replace a throttle body and it still wouldn't run! The part is 350.00-400.00 retail.

I would be curious if you fixed the actual problem with the car, and put back in the old throttle body, that the old throttle body works.

 

[Marianne]

My 2004 T-Bird (24,000 miles) went into limp mode and the Ford agency said it was a throttle body but after they replaced that, it still didn't run right and went into limp mode again, immediately. Then they said that there is a bad module but they can't seem to find one and don't know when they might get one. I am wondering if I needed a throttle body in the first place ($1,600) and does anyone know anything about a module that would get me back on the road?

Hi, I have a 2005 Tbird and have been experiencing the same exact problem. I have an extended warranty at my local Lincoln dealership so I have only to pay $100. every time it goes in. However, it adds up and the problem is never fixed!

My Tbird goes into limp mode frequently and they did replace the throttle body. I tried to argue based on everything I have read here. But they replaced the throttle body and sure enough I drove less than a mile and the wrench light came on. I turned around and brought it back. Then it was a coil. On and on.

 

[biddle]

But they replaced the throttle body and sure enough I drove less than a mile and the wrench light came on. I turned around and brought it back. Then it was a coil. On and on.

What happened after the coil was replaced and did they change them all or just one?

 

[Marianne]

They refuse to replace all the coils. They only replace one at a time. But since this happens so frequently they actually have replaced all but #8. When I pointed that out, the Service dept said it took 3 years .

 

[biddle]

They refuse to replace all the coils. They only replace one at a time. But since this happens so frequently they actually have replaced all but #8. When I pointed that out, the Service dept said it took 3 years .

Were the coils causing limp mode? If yes, this will help the OP (original poster).

PS your valve cover gasket may need replaced! This may be what is actually causing your COPS to fail. If it's leaking, your new COPS will also fail.

 

[Angry Bird]

They refuse to replace all the coils. They only replace one at a time. But since this happens so frequently they actually have replaced all but #8. When I pointed that out, the Service dept said it took 3 years .

You can replace the COPS for under $80 on eBay. I faced similar problems bought the new coils found a local independent garage had them replace the coils, new valve cover gaskets problem solved for under $300. I've since ordered another set of coils as back-ups.

 

[Slowwalker3045]

Were the coils causing limp mode? If yes, this will help the OP (original poster).

PS your valve cover gasket may need replaced! This may be what is actually causing your COPS to fail. If it's leaking, your new COPS will also fail.

like Biddle said check valve cover gasket, fills plug tube with oil then takes out coil. most common cause.

 

[Marianne]

Were the coils causing limp mode? If yes, this will help the OP (original poster).

PS your valve cover gasket may need replaced! This may be what is actually causing your COPS to fail. If it's leaking, your new COPS will also fail.

Thanks for the advice. Why wouldn’t the Lincoln service dept know this? Also, I am a single grandmother and cannot do my own repairs as many on here seem to do. I understand that the coils are not expensive but I would need a good mechanic to do the repairs, so my costs will always be much higher.

I will need to find a good mechanic. But not many know Thunderbirds.

 

[biddle]

Why wouldn’t the Lincoln service dept know this?

Valve cover gaskets leaking oil into spark plugs and/or Coils is a common issue with all cars. My girlfriend's daughter's 2009 Kia Rio just had hers changed. My girlfriend worked at a Ford dealership service department in 2018. They are greedy and often have lazy losers working as mechanics, the service advisers are the basically used car salesman of the service department making big money off the quotes they give for repairs.

I also worked at Ford Lincoln Mercury dealerships, but that was many years ago. It seems like things have definitely deteriorated. I think all businesses have a challenge finding good employees now.

 

[Frankie the Fink]

Sadly, I agree -- I've had some bad experiences with the local Ford dealer concerning my 02 TBird... In the last instance they wanted $1,500 to replace an Evaporator Air Discharge Temp sensor, whereas I changed the $29 part myself in 10 minutes under the dash based on advice from this forum...

 

[biddle]

They drove it around another day with no problem either. I picked up the car and drove up the coast hwy for several hundred miles, stopping many times along the way - no issues. Please advise! thank, Gil

I assume the spark plugs, COPS and valve cover gasket were not checked since the valve cover needs to be removed? I would rule out bad COPS.

 

[MikeInMichigan]

As Biddle said above you need to use a OBD-II tester to read the codes and report them back to the forum. There are three types of dashboard warning lights for engine and transmision related problems. 1) The "Check Engine Light" refers to emisison related items and is described on page 10 and page 186 of my 2004 owners manual. 2) the "Electronic Throttle Control" (a.k.a. "wrench light") refers to safety related issues than came along with electronic throttle control and is described on page 13 of my 2004 owners manual. 3) The "check fuel cap" light is listed on page 10. This last light (#3) is pretty straigtforward; try tightening the fuel cap in its screw mechanism and if this does not work try cleaning the seals where the cap screws in. Lights #1 and #2 should not be illuminated without setting "diagnostic trouble codes" (a.k.a.DTCs) indicating the source of the problem (bad throttle sensor, misfire related to coil on plug). OBD-II testers can be bought on Amazon for $25 to $40 that can display these codes. They are not difficult to use for a reasonably handy person. If you are not handy many auto parts stores will send a clerk out to your car and run the OBD-II test for you for free, with their reward being to sell you the parts. I wouldn't go to a dealer with lights #1 or #2 without using this free service first. Type the code into a google type search and it will tell you what part is associated. Show this to the service person at the dealership. This might discourage them from the fraud of changing a $1600 part when the trouble code indicted something lower cost. The trouble codes are not a perfect system because some "root cause" faults cause other things to look bad. A skilled technician knows how to sort through these things but as has been mentioned all mechanics are not created equal, and there is some fraud. But it is highly unlikely that a failed part will not cause a trouble code to be set. For instance, while a bad throttle body may cause more than one code to be set, it is almost certain the the throttle body code (or the throttle position sensor) code will be one of them. So if a dealer changes a throttle body and this was not one of the codes scream fraud! For the do-it-your-selfer I suggest listing the trouble codes, look at the cost to replace the given sensor or actuator, and replace the ones that are low cost and easy first. After replacing the part clear the codes with the OBD-II tester and see if the problem remains; it may take a few trips to appear. Change the next lowest cost / easiest part and so forth until the codes go away. One last piece of info you may be able to use (as stated in the owners manual) is if the check engine light is blinking it indicates a misfire, and it only blinks when the misfire is occuring. Misfires are most likely caused by the ignition system which includes the coil on plug system but also spark plugs, which are relatively easy to replace. Sometimes misfires come and go with humidity and type of gasoline used. Premium fuel is often worse for misfires than regular for variety of reasons.

 

[Dthayer]

My 2004 T-Bird (24,000 miles) went into limp mode and the Ford agency said it was a throttle body but after they replaced that, it still didn't run right and went into limp mode again, immediately. Then they said that there is a bad module but they can't seem to find one and don't know when they might get one. I am wondering if I needed a throttle body in the first place ($1,600) and does anyone know anything about a module that would get me back on the road?

I had the same problem. Took my 2004 into the local Ford dealership and they at first diagnosed the problem as the throttle body and I think they even ordered a new one and discovered that it did not fix the problem. They then were able to determine that the problem was actually the PCM module which they replaced and the problem was fixed. They did not charge me for the throttle body or any of that labor and the cost of the PCM w/ labor was actually cheaper than their original estimate for the throttle body and labor.

 

[JRalph]

As Biddle said above you need to use a OBD-II tester to read the codes and report them back to the forum. There are three types of dashboard warning lights for engine and transmision related problems. 1) The "Check Engine Light" refers to emisison related items and is described on page 10 and page 186 of my 2004 owners manual. 2) the "Electronic Throttle Control" (a.k.a. "wrench light") refers to safety related issues than came along with electronic throttle control and is described on page 13 of my 2004 owners manual. 3) The "check fuel cap" light is listed on page 10. This last light (#3) is pretty straigtforward; try tightening the fuel cap in its screw mechanism and if this does not work try cleaning the seals where the cap screws in. Lights #1 and #2 should not be illuminated without setting "diagnostic trouble codes" (a.k.a.DTCs) indicating the source of the problem (bad throttle sensor, misfire related to coil on plug). OBD-II testers can be bought on Amazon for $25 to $40 that can display these codes. They are not difficult to use for a reasonably handy person. If you are not handy many auto parts stores will send a clerk out to your car and run the OBD-II test for you for free, with their reward being to sell you the parts. I wouldn't go to a dealer with lights #1 or #2 without using this free service first. Type the code into a google type search and it will tell you what part is associated. Show this to the service person at the dealership. This might discourage them from the fraud of changing a $1600 part when the trouble code indicted something lower cost. The trouble codes are not a perfect system because some "root cause" faults cause other things to look bad. A skilled technician knows how to sort through these things but as has been mentioned all mechanics are not created equal, and there is some fraud. But it is highly unlikely that a failed part will not cause a trouble code to be set. For instance, while a bad throttle body may cause more than one code to be set, it is almost certain the the throttle body code (or the throttle position sensor) code will be one of them. So if a dealer changes a throttle body and this was not one of the codes scream fraud! For the do-it-your-selfer I suggest listing the trouble codes, look at the cost to replace the given sensor or actuator, and replace the ones that are low cost and easy first. After replacing the part clear the codes with the OBD-II tester and see if the problem remains; it may take a few trips to appear. Change the next lowest cost / easiest part and so forth until the codes go away. One last piece of info you may be able to use (as stated in the owners manual) is if the check engine light is blinking it indicates a misfire, and it only blinks when the misfire is occuring. Misfires are most likely caused by the ignition system which includes the coil on plug system but also spark plugs, which are relatively easy to replace. Sometimes misfires come and go with humidity and type of gasoline used. Premium fuel is often worse for misfires than regular for variety of reasons.

Thanks for all of this, it puts it in words that even a novice can understand and I think I'll ask the Ford dealership if they have the original read out that shows the code showing the throttle body was an actuator of the wrench light warning.
Do you know anything about finding the "module" that is now said to be causing problems?

 

[biddle]

Thanks for all of this, it puts it in words that even a novice can understand and I think I'll ask the Ford dealership if they have the original read out that shows the code showing the throttle body was an actuator of the wrench light warning.
Do you know anything about finding the "module" that is now said to be causing problems?

If you click the word, it takes you to the product link. Example PCM Module. This happens throughout the site.

 

[ranariz]

Re-post:
'04 Da Bird - SEEMS LIKE I HAVE SOLVED THE PROBLEM! NEW TPS INSTALLED! Codes read P-2111 Throttle Actuator Control stuck open; P-2106 Forced Limited power; P-2104 Forced Idle.

At first I thought I'd needed to replace throttle body. = $$$ Further research uncovered that Ford's throttle position sensors (or TPS) has/had issues in model years surrounding our Gen 11 Birds. That is, Fords with electronic throttle controls.

Upon inspection (taking engine cover off) I discovered I had the dreaded 1st generation TPS. (easy to spot, it has a Trapezoidal body). With throttle issue codes being thrown, I decided to take a chance and replace it. That's when I discovered that Ford TPS's are now on their 3rd generation (which has a rectangular body and a bit thicker than Gen 1 and cost $85 Autozone). 3rd generation, that tells you something. Although it's up top the engine, the water inlet is in the way, preventing a rather simple replacement. Took me about 90 minutes to replace. It's attached with Torx screws so you'll need to grab a set of those (looks like Allen wrenches) and be a little creative getting at the bottom screw. The secret is to heat up the throttle body near the screws, above 130 degrees F to "melt' the thread locking compound. You must do this or you're asking for trouble. I found out the hard way. Broke the top screw off. I had to break off the old TPS, heat up throttle body housing (with wife's old hair dryer, easy to do with TPS gone), then screws came right off. The broken one had enough thread sticking out to grab with vice grips. Replaced TPS, screws torqued down appropriately (the bottom one is a bitch, 1/4 turn at a time), plug connector back in and done.

Went for a 150 mile test drive this afternoon experiencing absolutely NO issues. Did city driving where most issues cropped up, country and interstate driving = NO ISSUES! No rough idling, power loss, etc. Ran like a Gen 11 Bird with only 30k miles (current miles) should.

If you're experiencing similar issues and have already replaced COPS/plugs, look at replacing the TPS, especially if it's a 1st generation TPS. Image of Gen 1 attached.

 

[pscottyoder]

My 2004 T-Bird (24,000 miles) went into limp mode and the Ford agency said it was a throttle body but after they replaced that, it still didn't run right and went into limp mode again, immediately. Then they said that there is a bad module but they can't seem to find one and don't know when they might get one. I am wondering if I needed a throttle body in the first place ($1,600) and does anyone know anything about a module that would get me back on the road?

I have found that even with replacement throttle bodies, they can still have the old original throttle position sensor unit, which can cause the issue you have. The part number of the sensor is DY1164, make sure that is the one on the throttle body now.

 

[ranariz]

UPDATE 7-AUG-2020: Have about 600 miles behind me driving with NO MORE LIMP MODE ISSUES! Key is reading codes (Codes read P-2111 Throttle Actuator Control stuck open; P-2106 Forced Limited power; P-2104 Forced Idle) and understanding how they relate in an electronic throttle controlled system. If you don't have an OBD2 reader, get one (worth the money) or take the 'Bird to someone you trust. I agree with pscottyoder, Throttle bodies at dealerships may have the Gen 1 TPS on them.