2004 codes P2107 & P2110 causing limp mode

[jaybay33]

Hi, I am new to this forum and love it so far. I am writing this post for my dad as he bought himself a 2004 bird about a year ago and loves the car aside from this limp mode issue. It started right after he bought the car and he brought it into a dealer and they told him it was from a dirty throttle body. They cleaned the throttle body and sent him on his way. Car was okay for a little while and then problem came right back. Problem goes like this. Car drives fine when its cold. Sometimes when engine is at full operating temp and its hot outside and mainly in slower traffic, car will throw a wrench, go into limp mode and throw check engine light. This only happens when its hot out and engine is hot and does not even happen every time. If he shuts the car off and waits a few minutes, car will start back up and be fine for a little while and then problem will start again. Engine codes are P2107 ( Throttle actuator A control module processor) and P2110 ( Throttle actuator A control System forced limited RPM ETC severity 2 of 3). Second time at dealer they replaced the throttle position sensor. He brought the car home and within a week was having the same issue. He tried a different garage the third time and they told him it was COPS and plugs. They replaced all COPS and plugs for 1000 dollars and within a week he was having the same issue. Now he brought it back to the shop and they are telling him it must be the throttle body which is a 1400 dollar job. My dad is older and retired and not made of money. He loves the car but this is getting ridiculous. I feel like they just keep throwing parts at it hoping it will fix the issue. I'm just wondering if anyone else has experienced a similar problem and whether or not the throttle body ever actually is the issue. Thanks for any help you can offer. I really appreciate it. Car is an 04 bird with 104,000 miles.

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[biddle]

The only time I saw this issue posted, the culprit was supposedly COPS. https://forums.fordthunderbirdforum.com/threads/throttle-body-pandemic-of-ford-makes.3792/post-28323

I've read people stating replacing the Throttle Body solved p2107 & P2110 on the Lincoln LS.

I can't recall any situation where the throttle body was the problem. Several times, people replaced it unnecessarily, and it was the TPS. Users reported Codes P2111, P2135, P2104, and P2106 for TPS problems.

Maybe it's an issue with the PCM because your codes are different P2107 & P2110- https://forums.fordthunderbirdforum...-2005-ford-thunderbird-3-9l-pcm-ecm-ecu.9792/ Total guess here, or maybe the replacement TB was faulty?

Maybe @doug7740 could shed some light on it.

Your mechanics are responsible for testing the parts and determining the culprit. Sounds like they are just guessing. As you can see above, over the years, users have reported different solutions to the same problem.

 

[Rawah652]

I'm curious how the first shop cleaned the throttle body, as there is a specific caution in the maintenance manual against cleaning portions of it, otherwise damage could result (I attached a picture of the Caution below). If I were your dad, and another shop was saying that needs to get replaced, I'd definitely be knocking on the door of that first shop to either have it replaced for free or at a steep discount.

The one thing I would check and clean is the electrical connector to the throttle body. Especially if you're in a humid or salty environment, a little bit of corrosion can get into them over time and cause havoc. A little TLC on the connector can save you having to replace a component.

As far as the actual issue, unfortunately these cars aren't that common, so most mechanics do not have experience working on them, much less the experience needed to diagnose issues. The troubleshooting trees I'm looking at point to either an electrical wiring issue (always the first thing they go for hence the suggestion to clean the plug), something mechanically wrong with the throttle body, or a bad PCM. Without getting an ohmmeter and scan tool on your vehicle myself, I can't tell you which of these issues it may be, and not having experienced this issue myself, I can't say which is more likely. Hopefully you can find a mechanic willing to troubleshoot instead of throw parts at it and see what sticks.

 

[doug7740]

Fault code P2107-Throttle Actuator Control Motor Processor and fault code P2110-Throttle Actuator Control System, forced limited RPM, are set when the electronic throttle control fails the PCM self test. These faults could be the result of an incorrect throttle position sensor command or the throttle actuator control motor wires shorted together.

When these codes are set the first thing that should be done is to perform a coil stress test on all ignition coils before any other part replacement is considered. An ignition coil may create a radio frequency interference resulting in these codes being set.

Since the other probable causes of these codes are the Electronic Throttle Control Motor, the Powertrain Control Module or the wiring and connectors, I would start by checking the resistance in the ETC Motor harness for short to ground, power, ETC reference and ETC return.

• Measure the resistance between the TACM + pin and battery ground
• Measure the resistance between the TACM - pin and battery ground
• Measure the resistance between the TACM + pin and battery power
• Measure the resistance between the TACM - pin and battery power
• Measure the resistance between the TACM + pin and ETC return
• Measure the resistance between the TACM - pin and ETC return
• Measure the resistance between the TACM + pin and ETC reference
• Measure the resistance between the TACM - pin and ETC reference

The resistance for each check should be greater than 10K ohms.

doug7740
1955 Thunderbird Blue

 

[Silver Bird]

'Had similar problem with '04'Bird when new and <1K mi. Bottomline: a defective throttle position sensor was the cause of the problem.

As an automotive hobbyist/DIYer, I suspected that was the cause from the outset but it would never "set a code". The selling dealer service mgr. said that until it does, they could do nothing ('could never replicate the problem at the dealer service shop). I returned the car to the dealer three times but was always told "until it sets a code". I finally got the message and simulated a TPS failure and made it "set a code". Upon return to the dealer, the manager said "now we have something to work with" and replaced the TPS . End of problem with no recurrence since new.

 

[stvlash]

I can see from previous replies, some are smarter than I can provide. Nonetheless, my 05 went into limp mode, I think caused by a security alarm. Codes indicated throttle body, but I decided to have the electrical system checked at my local shop. They replaced the throttle body for $1400, car runs well now.

 

[LJS]

My 2004 went into limp mode and threw the codes I had it checked at two local shops both said the throttle body was the problem, after reading several post on this forum and talking with the mechanic we decided on replacing the cops. The car runs but there is a strong smell of gas when starting and is sluggish. I am now wondering if the TPS should be replaced. Any help would be appreciated.

 

[cochon]

I feel your pain ... had a somewhat similar problem that was solved by cleaning the mass air sensor. Take a careful look at your air intake components. My problem originated when a 'helpful' state inspection mechanic took it upon himself to open the air filter box to 'check' the filter and didn't get it properly closed, resulting in unfiltered air into the system. Also, be sure to check the intake components for air leakage between the mass air sensor and the TB, as that will also mess up the mixture and confuse the PCM. The gas smell and sluggishness suggests a mixture problem, for which the codes are merely clues.

 

[Bird]

Is the plug beow F08054 the center plug on the PCM or is it located somewhere else?

 

[doug7740]

There are three separate connectors on the PCM. Looking at the picture, the 58-pin connector (C175b) is on the left, the 32-pin connector (C175t) is in the center and the 60-pin connector (C175e) is on the right.

doug7740
1955 Thunderbird Blue

 

[Bird]

Thank you for responding. I was trying to locate the plug referenced in the above thread attachment 31605, so I could perform continuity test procedures. Your assistance is greatly appreciated.
On cold starts only, My 2004 Bird revs higher than normal like close to 2000 rpms then stumbles drops below 1000 rpms and if I wait about 20 seconds with it it stumbling it sets DTC p2107 and p2110. When I turn off the ignition and restart the car it starts and drive normal?
I've replaced the COPs, throttle body, MAF, fuel filter, fuel pressure is good, etc.
Ford garage diagnostics indicate PCM? Still waiting for one to be rebuilt. You have Good Day

 

[doug7740]

Connector C2040 is the connector for the Electronic Throttle Control Module (Accelerator Pedal Sensor) located on the accelerator pedal.



If you determine that the PCM is defective you can send it to Automotive Modules for repair. They charge $500.00 for the repair and offer a 4-year warranty.

Thread '2002 2003 2004 2005 Ford Thunderbird 3.9L PCM ECM ECU'

Jun 18, 2020

To search for a PCM/EMC/ECU for all makes & models of vehicles (Dodge, Toyota, Jeep, Pontiac, Chrysler) etc click here.

The PCM units from seller "fs1inc" will arrive Programmed & Updated to your vehicle's VIN (Vehicle Identification Number) with the most recent manufacturer updates. These updates will also help improve the performance and fuel economy of your vehicle. If your vehicle is PATS (Passive Antitheft System) equipped or has a computer chip in your key, you may need to have the keys reprogrammed by a Locksmith or Ford Dealer. If you do not have PATS...

• biddle
• 2004 hard shift pcm
• Replies: 25
• Forum: 1955 - 2005 Parts Discussion & for Sale/Wanted

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doug7740
1955 Thunderbird Blue

 

[LJS]

On a recent trip to Florida the wrench light came on doing 70mph, the car continued to run at speed but felt sluggish. After stopping for lunch then restarting the wrench light was out, after around ten miles the wrench and engine lights came on the car continued to run okay. Took it to a shop and had the codes checked p2111[4/4] pending and p2135[1/4] saved, indicating the TPS was bad. I called the local Ford dealer to make an appointment but was told they would not work on it.
I changed the TPS the car ran good on the 900mile trip home, but I was told the PCM needs to be reprogramed. Is this correct?

 

[doug7740]

Once you replace the throttle position sensor you should reprogram the powertrain control module (PCM) to the latest calibration.

doug7740
1955 Thunderbird Blue

 

[LJS]

Will reprograming the PCM get rid of the rough shifting and sluggishness?

Thread '2002 2003 2004 2005 Ford Thunderbird 3.9L PCM ECM ECU'

Jun 18, 2020

To search for a PCM/EMC/ECU for all makes & models of vehicles (Dodge, Toyota, Jeep, Pontiac, Chrysler) etc click here.

The PCM units from seller "fs1inc" will arrive Programmed & Updated to your vehicle's VIN (Vehicle Identification Number) with the most recent manufacturer updates. These updates will also help improve the performance and fuel economy of your vehicle. If your vehicle is PATS (Passive Antitheft System) equipped or has a computer chip in your key, you may need to have the keys reprogrammed by a Locksmith or Ford Dealer. If you do not have PATS...

• biddle
• 2004 hard shift pcm
• Replies: 25
• Forum: 1955 - 2005 Parts Discussion & for Sale/Wanted

• 

 

[mac78749]

My 2005 runs great for weeks then suddenly enters limp mode on startup, due to throttle position. I'll try again off and on, and eventually it starts right up again and runs for weeks. I'm thinking to replace the throttle position sensor after reading this post. Is there anything else I should consider please?