1964 Has unusual transmission shift locations

[lvhdude]

Doing a little work on my 64, swapped out the points for Pertronix, new coil, replaced valve cover gaskets, started chasing down a few vacuum leaks (one was the vacuum advance), leaned out the auto choke just a bit, set timing and adjusted the carb. Car starts and runs great, but I noticed it would not rev past about 1600 RPM, sounded like it was laboring. Now the shifter was in park, and lucky for me, as it turns out it is in forward gear while in park. Luckily the park pawl was engaged, it might have run me over! Now the weird part is it worked perfectly when I drove it into the shop, other than the shifter was loose, like the linkage was worn. NOW, it is in forward gear while in park, neutral in the reverse location, neutral in neutral, neutral in drive 1, and drive 2, until I get to L, when it goes into forward gear. Then coming back up, it stays in forward gear in drive 2, (green dot), and in drive 1 it goes into reverse. Still neutral in neutral, neutral in reverse position, and when I put it into park, the park pawl engages, but it again goes into forward gear. I have never seen such a condition. Now I've seen an engine run with the distributor cap off, A Cat diesel not shut off when the fuel was cut off, a Detroit run backward, and run away, blown cluster gears out the bottom of T-10s, transmissions that locked up when they were put in gear and such, but this is a new one on me. Any ideas? Anyone ever had this kind of an issue? Or have any idea what could cause this? The only thing I can think is a leak, cracked, of gasket failure in the transmission valve body.

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[Ward 57]

OMG you have more experience on mechanical failures than I'm sure of anybody here. Just a wild guess but I'd look at the linkage and any other trans controls issues first.

 

[Gary Tayman]

VERY common problem. That steering column was not exactly the best engineered piece of hardware that Ford made. There are a number of things that can make the shofter sloppy, including the shift lever itself and the detent plate, but the big one -- the one that's the most likely culprit -- is a big plastic doughnut that mounts near the bottom of the column and holds the shifter in place. That doughnut wears out, and often falls out completely. Supposedly you have to remove and disassemble the entire column to replace it, but there's actually an easier way. Cut a slit in the new doughnut and install it from underneath the car.

The mystery to me is why the new ones are made of the same plastic. If these wear out and fall out as often as they do, can't they make a more robust replacement?

 

[lvhdude]

OMG you have more experience on mechanical failures than I'm sure of anybody here. Just a wild guess but I'd look at the linkage and any other trans controls issues first.

How would it lock in the park pawl if the linkage was not functioning? And Holding the shift lever towards me I can feel each of the detents in the transmission both ways.

 

[lvhdude]

VERY common problem. That steering column was not exactly the best engineered piece of hardware that Ford made. There are a number of things that can make the shofter sloppy, including the shift lever itself and the detent plate, but the big one -- the one that's the most likely culprit -- is a big plastic doughnut that mounts near the bottom of the column and holds the shifter in place. That doughnut wears out, and often falls out completely. Supposedly you have to remove and disassemble the entire column to replace it, but there's actually an easier way. Cut a slit in the new doughnut and install it from underneath the car.

The mystery to me is why the new ones are made of the same plastic. If these wear out and fall out as often as they do, can't they make a more robust replacement?

How does that explain reverse in the drive 1 location only on the move from drive 2, and park which it shifts into is still 3 detents away?

 

[74 Harley]

Do you know the history of the car and/ or transmission? It sounds like the trans came from a console shift car ( they work backwards on the shift pattern). Being in drive with the park pawl engaged reminds me of having clutches welded to the drum. But you seem to have neutral and reverse. Otherwise you have serious valve body issues.

 

[lvhdude]

Do you know the history of the car and/ or transmission? It sounds like the trans came from a console shift car ( they work backwards on the shift pattern). Being in drive with the park pawl engaged reminds me of having clutches welded to the drum. But you seem to have neutral and reverse. Otherwise you have serious valve body issues.

If it had not been functioning fine in the few weeks I have owned it, a swapped trans could have a backwards pattern. Or if it had been removed and the linkage somehow was flipped over, but it was fine driving into the shop for electronic ignition conversion, valve cover gaskets, and a radiator job. Two days later as I was setting timing, and adjusting the carb, I discovered the issue. On an aside, I did drive it to the DMV and back for the VIN inspection for tags on Monday. With the shifter in L, I had drive 1. Start in 2nd and shift into 3rd.

So turns out this was the issue. Looking closely, the pin from the shift linkage is in the wrong place on the manual shift valve in the valve body. New gasket, 4 quarts of oil, and a little adjustment of linkage, works just as it should. Wish I'd known how thick the gauge was for the band adjustment, I'd have done that while I was in it.

 

[stacks-55]

So turns out this was the issue. Looking closely, the pin from the shift linkage is in the wrong place on the manual shift valve in the valve body. New gasket, 4 quarts of oil, and a little adjustment of linkage, works just as it should. Wish I'd known how thick the gauge was for the band adjustment, I'd have done that while I was in it.View attachment 16440

Might be a little late but is this located right behind the transmission oil pan?

 

[74 Harley]

Yes, right inside the pan. Easy to get at.

 

[stacks-55]

Yes, right inside the pan. Easy to get at.

awesome, I will take a look at it soon and hope that the reason why I only have neutral and low gear.

 

[74 Harley]

@stacks-55 , what is the history of your car? Is this a new issue or did you get the car with it?
Where does it go into low gear at?
If you get it in drive then you need more than adjustment.

 

[stacks-55]

@stacks-55 , what is the history of your car? Is this a new issue or did you get the car with it?
Where does it go into low gear at?
If you get it in drive then you need more than adjustment.

New issue and when taken out of park ever gear I put it in is low,

I purchased my 1964 thunderbird a few months back. The car needed some work but everything worked fine. I recently had to replace my exhaust manifolds due to a large crack in one of them causing a leak. After everything was replaced and new exhaust was hooked up, I went to take it around the block only to find out I only have neutral and low/1st. The column shift does have slop but the linkage does work and will move the arm attached to the transmission. The transmission does have enough fluid. I was looking around on the forums and people with transmission issues were told to look at the neutral safety switch but the symptoms they have don't completely match up with mine. Side note, when replacing the exhaust a lot was moved around due to the tight fit and something could have easily come undone/disconnected that I am just missing.

Someone also suggested that the the transmission vacuum hose might not be connected. Which is wasn't when I started and drove the car before but I re-attached the hose yesterday and still have the same problem. I was also told it could be the shifter but when the shifter moves the lever on the transmission. I was also told the front band could be broken which I am starting to look into now. Does the entire transmission only go into gear based on vacuum?

 

[74 Harley]

The vacuum modulator helps to tell the transmission when to shift. So it sounds like you don't have reverse either.
So without being there let me give you some ideas... Have you checked the actual adjustment of the shift linkage itself? ( Shifter in park, loosen the connection on transmission and push it all the way up into park)
Is the kickdown linkage free to move?
When shifting out of park/neutral does it go into gear smoothly or does it slams in gear hard?
Being a '64 this should be a cast iron case cruise-o-matic. Does it leak oil? (Especially near the rear).

 

[stacks-55]

The vacuum modulator helps to tell the transmission when to shift. So it sounds like you don't have reverse either.
So without being there let me give you some ideas... Have you checked the actual adjustment of the shift linkage itself? ( Shifter in park, loosen the connection on transmission and push it all the way up into park)
Is the kickdown linkage free to move?
When shifting out of park/neutral does it go into gear smoothly or does it slams in gear hard?
Being a '64 this should be a cast iron case cruise-o-matic. Does it leak oil? (Especially near the rear).

I do not have reverse, when I shift the lever out its a hard shift. It was smooth roughly 2 weeks before I did the exhaust and everything worked fine. I have checked the adjustment, and reset it multiple times over the past few days, to my undersanding the lever on the transmission is all the way up is park then moves down to reverse, neutral, drive 1, drive 2, low. The colum shifter does move the shifter on the transmission. The kick down linkage is not binding. It is a cruise-o-matic. It does leak oil but I have not been able to find the leak.

I pulled the trans pan down today to see if anything was broken and everything seemed extremely clean for an old transmission. Does the transmission need vacuum to go into gear or can it be bypassed?

 

[74 Harley]

It does need vacuum, however my concern with the oil leak is I have had 2 of these tranny's ( a'61&62) that had cracked cases near the back end and had similar issues as what you describe. The cast iron case is not as durable as you would think. I hope yours isn't cracked, but it's a possibility.

 

[stacks-55]

It does need vacuum, however my concern with the oil leak is I have had 2 of these tranny's ( a'61&62) that had cracked cases near the back end and had similar issues as what you describe. The cast iron case is not as durable as you would think. I hope yours isn't cracked, but it's a possibility.

I will look tomorrow for a crack. It seems to leak close to where the dipstick goes so I am assuming it is that.

 

[stacks-55]

Looked and didn't find any cracks. I did find a broken small line that is near the front passenger side of the transmission. Not sure what it goes to but it's about 6 inches long and has a 90 degree turn.

 

[74 Harley]

Can you post a few pictures?

 

[stacks-55]


What is this pipe in the picture coming off the transmission? Is it for vacuum?