Throttle Body Pandemic of Ford Makes

[George]

Thanks tbird_gal, good to see you posting again.😛
There is another test that can be done someone suspects they have COPS issues and want the error message to come up.
If there's a steep hill close by, go up slowly , in high gear, so as to make the engine labor. By doing this an error message will come up if you have COPS issues. Don't turn the car off, go directly to the dealer and show them the error code. Or if you do shut it down, write the code down so you don't forget.
Finally, since the engine in our Birds is Lincoln LS, the Lincoln dealers have more experience dealing with the COPS because they service both the LS's and TBirds. Therefore, a Lincoln dealer is your best bet for service. IMHO😎

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[Sterling]

Sure Enough

I found a dealership that was aware of the COPS problem and took my 2004, in. Not one but two (the 2 and the 6) coils were bad and had to be replaced. The driving experience was still very different from when the throttle body was replaced a few months ago, so I think I am just one of the lucky ones that has had both problems.

 

[Phillip]

Well, I got mine back yesterday, and even though I told them that I was certain it was a COP problem (I have a 2005 T-Bird) that was causing problems with acceleration and the "wrench" to show up on my dashboard, they said that the codes indicated a throttle body problem, and they replaced it (I had to pay a $100 deductible). I sure hope they are right.

 

[Phillip]

I think Tbird Gals comment about it being heat related is correct, since when I go to work in the morming in the summer, I did not get the problem, but when I go home in hte afternoon heat, on the same roads, I was getting the wrench to show up and the car was going into limp mode.

It really seems to me that the throttle body replacement that I just had done was a waste of time, but they were sure that was the problem.

George: You state that if you have to turn the car off before going to the dealership, to write the codes down so that you can show them to the serviceman there. What do you mean by that, since I would think I would need a special machine to hook up to the engine to do that, and I don't have such a thing. Can I go to an AutoZone or something like that to get the codes read off, and will they do it for free?

 

[George]

No Phil, I thought that if you had to shut the car off for any reason and restart it, that the codes may clear themselves. That's why I suggested writing them down so you could tell them. That's all

 

[Phillip]

Thanks, George. My question is how do I get the codes in the first place to write them down? Do I go to Advance Auto Parts or Auto Zone and can they pop my hood and plug some device to my car and get the codes for me (and does that cost anything)?

When I went to the dealership on Thursday afternoon, I asked them about the codes, since I had the "Wrench" appear on my car dashboard, and I did not want to turn the car off. They told me that they could read the codes from memory, which I said I thought could not be done based on my reading of posts on T-Bird forums, but they said that they could do it, and so I did not press them on that issue (they said that they could not just pull my car into the shop then and there to read the codes, and that they would do it later).

 

[George]

Generally the codes would come up on the dah, like the wrench does. That's why I said write them down. Unfortunately yours did not. BTW, have you looked in the book for the definition of the wrench light? I've heard of it but never have seen it
AutoZone may be able to read the codes but I believe they will clear after 1-4car starts. I could be wrong though, so keep us tuned in to the results when you can

 

[Phillip]

Thanks, George. I did not see any codes pop up on my dashboard when the wrench light came on after the car seemed to lose a cylinder or two. My vehicle manual says that the wrench light is to indicate a 'limp home' mode, and does not say much more than that. I did not also get the check engine light to go on when I had that condition.

Now, after saying all that, it has been 3 days since I had the throttle body replaced and I have driven about 200 miles during that time, and so far, so good. Maybe the Ford Dealership was right after all!

I will keep you posted.

 

[Phillip]

The T-bird still runs OK with the throttle assembly replaced. The only weird thing is that the T-bird does not seem to have the get-up-and-go like it did before. It definitely does not run like a vehicle in the limp-home mode, but it just seems like a restrictor plate has been placed on the car. Anyway, I should not complain, as the "wrench" does not appear on my dashboard, but my fingers are still crossed that a COPs issue will not appear in the future.

 

[Quickdraw]

Generally the codes would come up on the dah, like the wrench does. That's why I said write them down. Unfortunately yours did not. BTW, have you looked in the book for the definition of the wrench light? I've heard of it but never have seen it
AutoZone may be able to read the codes but I believe they will clear after 1-4car starts. I could be wrong though, so keep us tuned in to the results when you can

While I can't say "for sure" I've heard that the codes stay in the computer for 30 starts.

 

[jetbird]

Gearge,

I got the evil limp home opportunity in my 03 on the way home from work this week. My car is at the local Ford dealer who does all my service work. They are replacing 4 COP's and plugs at no charge. Hopefully, this will fix the problem. I have 47,000 miles on the car and no problems for the last 25,000 miles. They have been a great dealer up to now; we will see how this works out. Thanks for all the great help you provide.

Regards,

Jim (jetbird)

 

[George]

The T-bird still runs OK with the throttle assembly replaced. The only weird thing is that the T-bird does not seem to have the get-up-and-go like it did before. It definitely does not run like a vehicle in the limp-home mode, but it just seems like a restrictor plate has been placed on the car. Anyway, I should not complain, as the "wrench" does not appear on my dashboard, but my fingers are still crossed that a COPs issue will not appear in the future.

Phillip; you may have a COP problem. Very often I've heard of them replacing throttle bodies and a few weeks later the COPS. If your not happy, have them look at those when yopu get a chance

Jim: It's great that you have a good dealer - And your still good up to 100,000 miles on the COPS

 

[donnervogel]

The dreaded Limp Mode appears

At about 47K miles this past week the dreaded wrench and limp mode. Unfortunately didn't know about this problem and took it to my local mechanic (not Ford Dealer). Of course the problem was diagnosed as the throttle thing so $1000 down the drain with no refund as it was supposedly fixed. Got two miles from the place and back to limp and wrench (or should it be wretch!).
Anyhow after another several days at the garage our guy found the Ford COPS recall (shouldn't they have mailed this info to us years ago???) so car taken to the dealership.
The dealership didn't want to hear about my mechanic's diagnosis and all the stuff I printed up from the Thunderbird forum after finding out about this. They had to "diagnose it themselves." The guy wasn't too pleased that the new throttle was put in at the garage (how do we know it was new? he said), etc. I gave him the stack of info printed up from this forum and told him to give it to the mechanic.
Magically a few hours later got a call confirming COPS was the problem. A day later car is back on the road...hopefully the fix will last. The fix was free but ....
The $1000 rip off is crazy as the mechanic says the flaw in the system makes it look like that is what needs to be replaced. No way you can know and then out $1000 as "no refunds."
Oh well.....

 

[Phillip]

Phillip; you may have a COP problem. Very often I've heard of them replacing throttle bodies and a few weeks later the COPS. If your not happy, have them look at those when yopu get a chance

Jim: It's great that you have a good dealer - And your still good up to 100,000 miles on the COPS

I guess I will have to wait until the Wrench appears . . . It is not like the problem I had before when the Wrench appeared and the car was clearly operating on less than 8 cylinders. Rather, the car is sluggish with the new throttle body. Don't know what to think.

 

[Mino]

Now What???

New to the forum. I have an 03 that has had the coil problem "fixed" and now have a throttle sensor and throttle body problem which are currently being "fixed". Once the new throttle body is in I was told I may still have a PCM problem. The coil problem with the associated gasket problem was covered under a recall, the throttle sensor / body issue by an extended warranty. The money is one thing, the safety and ass pain another. The current problem resulted in being stranded overnight and an $800 tow.

When I had the coil gasket problem I was told that some of those parts which being manufactured at the time had quality control problems and that the new parts corrected those defects. I don't know yet why the throttle parts are failing. Does anyone know if their problems have been corrected or are we simply putting on new but equally defective parts? Until I find out I will be highly disinclined to take this uncertainty out on the open road again, and will likely sell the vehicle should this happen again.

Does anyone have any insight into the "permanence" or quality of these throttle "repairs". Are they really repairs or just equally defective parts replacements.

 

[George]

Mino:
First of all, WELCOME to The Forum!!
I don't recall hearing from anyone who had one replaced having to have it done over again.
Can anyone here, who had it done, comment?

 

[Mino]

Thank You George

Thank you for the welcome George. I see you are "Member of the Year 2006", congratulations.

I intend to ask the service department handling my current repairs if they will approach Ford with my questions / concerns about the throttle repairs and report back if I learn anything.

I'd hate to think what would happen should one suddenly lose power, the engine defaulting to idle as mine did, while on the interstate in a metropolitan area and passing a semi with one or more vehicles foolishly riding ones bumper (as often happens). Its disconcerting to realize engineers, who consumers are basically forced to trust, are building vehicles with such vulnerabilities. Has anyone converted their T-Bird to carburetors and a "real" throttle cable? ;-)

Which brings up a related point, and don't let me hijack this tread, but power response to pushing on the pedal to pass in this vehicle is, what should I say, awkward? When pressing on the pedal to pass the vehicle seems to need to think it over for quite a while before abruptly adding gas and downshifting. Sounds appropriate enough, but the end result is a very awkward / hard application of power. Awkward in the sense that one is usually changing lanes (ie turning slightly) when the power comes on, which throws the vehicle a bit off balance. Too much electronics involved I expect. I've found by far the best way to pass quickly is to shift manually. Can fully "automatic" passing be "de-tuned" or smoothed out somehow?

 

[Mino]

Update

I just spoke with the service manager handling my repairs. Apparently the problem is the PCM (Power-train Control Module) and not the throttle body. No estimate on when the new PCM will be available, its currently on back-order. He did tell me that he is not aware of PCMs being inherently defective due to quality control problems etc, and has seen very few such failures. Apparently my problem was a fluke and not necessarily likely to be repeated. That is of some comfort.

 

[George]

Interesting,the dealer saying that. If they're not a problem, why do so many dealers have problems getting them 😕? BTW, Read up on this by doing a search. I believe it was TBIRD GIRL that found some in FL

Now, you said, "but power response to pushing on the pedal to pass in this vehicle is, what should I say, awkward? When pressing on the pedal to pass the vehicle seems to need to think it over for quite a while".
I believe that to be transmission response. Maybe Quickdraw can weigh in here on this. But, many owners had similar issues and ultimately had their transmissions re-flashed and problem solved. You may want to look into that as well.

 

[Mino]

Thank you George.

When I first became aware of the passing issue, I thought it was due to either the intake's brains or the transmission's brains. But I thought it was just something I'd have to live with in the computer age. Based on your thoughts I'll ask the dealer about re-flashing the transmission. Thanks again.

By the way, you've already got my vote for 2010 Member of the Year. 🙂