1967 Thunderbird 390 power steering question...

[Gbird67]

The power steering hoses on my car are shot, dry rotted, rusty. Questions for the group:
- Pleaae explain the hose connections and the mystery interface on the firewall (see photo). The hose from the pump to the gear us pretty straightforward, but the hose from the gear goes up to some sort of interface gizmo, into a splitter on the port on the firewall, and that cable goes back to the cooler then returns to the pump. What is this mess?
- I've searched all over and can only find 1/2 of the high pressure hose, but nothing else, especially the return to the pump with the wacky splitter (see photo). Where can I get these hoses?
Thanks,
Gbird67

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[OneAmongOthers]

I was told its a line for the power assisted steering wheel. It's what makes the steering wheel so light when turning it. As for a replacement? HA! I searched high and low for one myself. Ended up taking it to a hydraulic machine shop and they replaced the line putting two barbed ends on it so whenever/if ever that line should leak again I can simply just replace the hose. Part is obsolete! Discontinued! No where have I found it. Or even was it mentioned.

 

[Excaliburss]

The power steering hoses on my car are shot, dry rotted, rusty. Questions for the group:
- Pleaae explain the hose connections and the mystery interface on the firewall (see photo). The hose from the pump to the gear us pretty straightforward, but the hose from the gear goes up to some sort of interface gizmo, into a splitter on the port on the firewall, and that cable goes back to the cooler then returns to the pump. What is this mess?
- I've searched all over and can only find 1/2 of the high pressure hose, but nothing else, especially the return to the pump with the wacky splitter (see photo). Where can I get these hoses?
Thanks,
Gbird67
View attachment 3487 View attachment 3488

That is no mess.....it runs your wiper motor. The hoses you have to get made somewhere as I don't think you can buy them anymore.

 

[7eric]

The power steering hoses on my car are shot, dry rotted, rusty. Questions for the group:
- Pleaae explain the hose connections and the mystery interface on the firewall (see photo). The hose from the pump to the gear us pretty straightforward, but the hose from the gear goes up to some sort of interface gizmo, into a splitter on the port on the firewall, and that cable goes back to the cooler then returns to the pump. What is this mess?
- I've searched all over and can only find 1/2 of the high pressure hose, but nothing else, especially the return to the pump with the wacky splitter (see photo). Where can I get these hoses?
Thanks,
Gbird67
View attachment 3487 View attachment 3488

One hose actually assists the windshield wipers operate. I took my old hoses to Colliflower and they duplicated it right there in the store while I waited. They charge around $35. https://www.colliflower.com/

Eric

 

[OneAmongOthers]

That is no mess.....it runs your wiper motor. The hoses you have to get made somewhere as I don't think you can buy them anymore.

Correct on this. You have to go and get it made as I doubt you will ever find a new one anymore. On a side note... You are telling me the wiper motor is hydraulic?

 

[Excaliburss]

Yes, I thought you know . Kind a weird system....

 

[OneAmongOthers]

Yes, I thought you know . Kind a weird system....

I don't know a lot about my car its a pandoras box of things cobbled together. Engine was replaced by a previous owner with a 460 so I am lost as to whats what in the engine bay honestly. Thankfully the 460 and 429 are so similar its easier to get parts. As for the vacuum and other stuff? Yeah... not so much.

 

[Excaliburss]

Your wipers work ?

 

[OneAmongOthers]

Your wipers work ?

Yeah. I had that line replaced a while ago.

 

[Gbird67]

Group thanks for the info! Learned a lot about my system I did not know.

Also I think the transmission fluid ties into this system too. What a weird design!!

Why would Ford make the wiper system so complicated and hydraulic? A simple electric motor in 1967 makes much more sense. I think fixing all of the vacuum components on this car after sitting for 40 years will prove to be a big challenge, even with diagrams.

 

[OneAmongOthers]

Group thanks for the info! Learned a lot about my system I did not know.

Also I think the transmission fluid ties into this system too. What a weird design!!

Why would Ford make the wiper system so complicated and hydraulic? A simple electric motor in 1967 makes much more sense. I think fixing all of the vacuum components on this car after sitting for 40 years will prove to be a big challenge, even with diagrams.

probably because electric wasn't available. Also power steering and the transmission shared the same fluid. It's all the same really. Just another type of hydraulic fluid. Today cars are just overly complex because reasons sometimes. The old saying... is if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

 

[Gbird67]

One hose actually assists the windshield wipers operate. I took my old hoses to Colliflower and they duplicated it right there in the store while I waited. They charge around $35. https://www.colliflower.com/

Eric

Eric,
There is a Colliflower near me and I am planning a visit. Threw in the towel on finding these hoses. Weird that you can find everything for virtually every other Ford-Mercury- Lincoln 1967, except Thunderbird!
What brand of replacement power steering pump do you recommend? I thought I would just attempt to reuse the old one, now thinking not.

Thanks,
G

 

[OneAmongOthers]

Eric,
There is a Colliflower near me and I am planning a visit. Threw in the towel on finding these hoses. Weird that you can find everything for virtually every other Ford-Mercury- Lincoln 1967, except Thunderbird!
What brand of replacement power steering pump do you recommend? I thought I would just attempt to reuse the old one, now thinking not.

Thanks,
G

You can still get the power steering pump. Try rockauto.

 

[MissouriFats]

Hey GB-on the ps hose problem-as others have stated, you just as well plan on having them made. It's not really a big deal as most auto parts stores of any size can make up hydraulic hoses. As for the plumbing of the system, it is fairly straightforward. The high pressure hose off the pump goes directly to the steering box. The return off the steering box goes up to that weird looking part, as you called it. The fluid travels through it and into the windshield wiper motor. If the ww motor does not need it, it bypasses and returns to the ps pump possibly through a cooler if it is still there. One of the great mysteries to me is how the "park" function on the ww works. I never have figured that one out, but it somehow does it's job. If you can do without the windshield wipers, you could bypass the whole thing and just run the return hose back to the cooler/pump. That would depend on whether your state has an inspection law that would require the wipers to work and/or whether or not you think you could do without them.
As for you tackling the vacuum system on your Bird, I wish you luck! Even with the aid of the shop manual on CD, I can't tell you how many hours/days/weeks/months I spent trying to get various things working on mine. Keep in mind that it only takes one leak to defeat all the systems. And one leak can cause a multitude of problems. I found that the door lock "motors" were leaking. I have no idea where you would find either good used or new replacements. I eventually gave up! I figured I could live without power door locks. Also, I found the vacuum controlled heat/ac functions to be a problem. The control unit in the dash has a lot of very small tubes running off it and through the firewall, and even smaller orifices in the unit itself. It didn't really work very well in 1967, and this many years later it certainly is problematic. Again, I gave up on that and just change the vacuum hoses in the engine bay to port to whatever function I need for the moment. I hope the Ford engineers who designed this system are residing in the proper place in the "heaven or hell" scenario!

 

[OneAmongOthers]

Hey GB-on the ps hose problem-as others have stated, you just as well plan on having them made. It's not really a big deal as most auto parts stores of any size can make up hydraulic hoses. As for the plumbing of the system, it is fairly straightforward. The high pressure hose off the pump goes directly to the steering box. The return off the steering box goes up to that weird looking part, as you called it. The fluid travels through it and into the windshield wiper motor. If the ww motor does not need it, it bypasses and returns to the ps pump possibly through a cooler if it is still there. One of the great mysteries to me is how the "park" function on the ww works. I never have figured that one out, but it somehow does it's job. If you can do without the windshield wipers, you could bypass the whole thing and just run the return hose back to the cooler/pump. That would depend on whether your state has an inspection law that would require the wipers to work and/or whether or not you think you could do without them.
As for you tackling the vacuum system on your Bird, I wish you luck! Even with the aid of the shop manual on CD, I can't tell you how many hours/days/weeks/months I spent trying to get various things working on mine. Keep in mind that it only takes one leak to defeat all the systems. And one leak can cause a multitude of problems. I found that the door lock "motors" were leaking. I have no idea where you would find either good used or new replacements. I eventually gave up! I figured I could live without power door locks. Also, I found the vacuum controlled heat/ac functions to be a problem. The control unit in the dash has a lot of very small tubes running off it and through the firewall, and even smaller orifices in the unit itself. It didn't really work very well in 1967, and this many years later it certainly is problematic. Again, I gave up on that and just change the vacuum hoses in the engine bay to port to whatever function I need for the moment. I hope the Ford engineers who designed this system are residing in the proper place in the "heaven or hell" scenario!

The automatic temperature control on my 1969 is busted as well... some “magic air” control it is. I can’t get the heat to turn off. Is there a way to get it to not blow hot? Otherwise I am going to just bypass the heater core for the summer time so it stops blowing hot air through the vents

 

[MissouriFats]

I suspect there is a control valve that regulates the flow of coolant through the heater core, and it is probably vacuum controlled (given Ford engineer's love of that form of controlling things in that time period!). That is where I would start rather than bypass the heater core for the summer. If you do bypass it for the summer, it can dry out and then leak when you hook it back up. I have had that happen to me in the past on one car. Anyway, find the control valve and either hook up direct manifold vacuum or remove the hose from the control valve and plug it. I have no idea which way it goes-either they put vacuum to it to open it or vacuum to it to close it. With a little experimenting it should be easy enough to tell. I would start by unhooking the vacuum to it (and plug off that hose, of course) and see if it stops the water flow.

 

[OneAmongOthers]

I suspect there is a control valve that regulates the flow of coolant through the heater core, and it is probably vacuum controlled (given Ford engineer's love of that form of controlling things in that time period!). That is where I would start rather than bypass the heater core for the summer. If you do bypass it for the summer, it can dry out and then leak when you hook it back up. I have had that happen to me in the past on one car. Anyway, find the control valve and either hook up direct manifold vacuum or remove the hose from the control valve and plug it. I have no idea which way it goes-either they put vacuum to it to open it or vacuum to it to close it. With a little experimenting it should be easy enough to tell. I would start by unhooking the vacuum to it (and plug off that hose, of course) and see if it stops the water flow.

Where is the control valve located?

 

[Excaliburss]

I installed electric activators in my doors and trunk to have a working central locking system . Its a bit of work, but got rid
of one vacuum problem maker. Even got it now with a remote control unit. Not "original" that way, but for years to come trouble free.

 

[64ZCODE]

That's nice, Excaliburss. Was that a kit you purchased?

Doug

 

[MissouriFats]

To: OneAmongOthers-It will have to be in one of the hoses that goes to the heater core. If it doesn't have one then it must be controlled a different way such as a door in the heat/ac assembly under the dash that directs the air to either go through or bypass the heater core. If the picture you have is of the car in question (looks to me like a 67), I am sure it has a heater control valve. On my 67 it sits above and towards the back of the right (passenger side) valve cover. Again, all you have to do is look at the heater hoses and you will find it. I just looked at the shop manual on CD that I have, and it shows that the heater control valve is closed when it has vacuum applied. So you will need to hook it up to a vacuum source to keep it closed. Don't be surprised, though, when you stop the car and start up again (like if you stopped for lunch on a trip) it will put heat through the vents for a while. That is because there was no vacuum to keep the valve closed when you stopped, so when you start up again it does send some hot water through the heater core before the vacuum closes the valve. I hope this helps keep you cooler!