Rebuild on 64

[kkkaiser]

I'm trying to take the big swig, jut done want to get to big a gulp for after purchase repairs..having a 63 coupe de ville, i would like a t bird to add, just trying make the cost work,,

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[OneAmongOthers]

Hesitation sounds like distributor issues with the points or condenser. I had the same issue with my 69. Ran good when accelerating at higher speeds, but off the line it hesitated. My suggestion is dump the points and either go one of two paths. Get the Pertronix electronic conversion or get a new distributor with all the new electronic ignition in it. Also get the power relay from Pertronix too. 64ZCODE clued me into it on my car as well and boy does she run great now! Steering wheel play can be the rag joint being worn out or something in the steering gearbox itself. Also check the tie rods too.

As for the concern of cost of repairs? Heh... well best to break open your wallet. It could get expensive. We are talking about a 60 year old vehicle you know.

 

[kkkaiser]

Hesitation sounds like distributor issues with the points or condenser. I had the same issue with my 69. Ran good when accelerating at higher speeds, but off the line it hesitated. My suggestion is dump the points and either go one of two paths. Get the Pertronix electronic conversion or get a new distributor with all the new electronic ignition in it. Also get the power relay from Pertronix too. 64ZCODE clued me into it on my car as well and boy does she run great now! Steering wheel play can be the rag joint being worn out or something in the steering gearbox itself. Also check the tie rods too.

As for the concern of cost of repairs? Heh... well best to break open your wallet. It could get expensive. We are talking about a 60 year old vehicle you know.

i really like the way the thunderbird rides, and its look. and the interior design, it feels good. i know what you mean about cost. as stated earlier, i have 63 and 73 cadillacs. i have upgraded both with pertrionix, replaced starter on one, tires,, (t bird tires are 10 t0 12 years old) lots of rubber trims, this and thats, all seem to be a $100 a pop minimum to pay for the parts, in the end, i think i may just sink the potential 7500 purchase price in to my two existing cars, and get them running as good as they can be.

thanks to everyone who has helped me on this, i really appreciate the time and advice,,,,,

 

[64ZCODE]

Hey all, I'm back again, still negotiating with owner on above 64, Seller got carb rebuilt to fix the leaking accelerator pump, we took out for a ride,, all seemed well, until we pulled up to an on ramp to get on the interstate, after the initial slowdown, to make the curve to climb the ramp, i put down the accelerator and got a pretty good hesitation, and then vroom, off we went, he was a bit surprised at the delay. after several attempts to recreate the condition, and determined at a slowdown to about 15 to 20 mph, and if you gave it a good push on the accel, it would hesitate and in two cases it died, had to pull over, and restart. it didnt seem to ever do this hesitation then accelerate over 20 mph, it was always immediately responsive at higher speeds.. only at 10 to 20 mph..

seller thought it was a carb adjustment,, so we went from one full turn to a 3/4 turn to a 1.5 turn on those screws on the front of the carb, but never did get it right. he was a bit confused as well, so my question is, what could cause that delay in acceleration or cause the engine to stall out after a slow down,, he has replaced the fuel pump, and now the carb rebuild, i can speculate but I'm not a real mechanic so i thought i would through that out...he has not changed plugs, wires, or done timing in 20 plus years, could that be a culprit to this??

another item arose i didn't remember from earlier rides. steering has about a 3 inch, high and low play. total of 6 inches,, i seem to have read about some suspension items common on this era car, or would something else be the cause of that much play, if forgot to check the rag joint, area, but was looking for quick thoughts there.

i am just trying to figure how much more I'm going to have to go in at a minimum after the initial purchase on a couple of these items, especially the ones where actual driving performance is of a concern.

thanks a gain for any input, i am a novice, thus the questions.

Sincerely
Kim

Sounds like a carb issue, most likely the accelerator pump isn't doing it's job. Not sure what carb this is, but the Holley 670 cfm carbs are notorious for hesitation under acceleration due to accelerator pump not being adjusted correctly. But, as others have commented, ignition could be a culprit also. These old FE engines have weak ignition systems so that compounds other problems.

Not sure if you resolved the smoking issue? But hopefully you have and that's a non issue. In that case, you can probably plan on doing a full tuneup and maybe replacing the carb. Could easily run $800-1000 if you buy a new carb and go the Pertronix route.

 

[kees]

Hi, new to this forum. Just bought this 1964 Thunderbird. Very clean. 34000 miles. Already loving it !

 

[64ZCODE]

Hey kees, that's great. Are you new to this forum?

Doug

 

[kees]

Hi Doug.

Yes, I am new to this forum. Finding lots of great information. I like the wheels on yours.

 

[kees]

Hey kees, that's great. Are you new to this forum?

Doug

Hi Doug, just read your post regarding rough idle. I am thinking of going with the petronix ignition. You mention a power relay. Could you enlighten me on the relay. I am nor familiar with it. Thanks, Kees

 

[OneAmongOthers]

Hi Doug, just read your post regarding rough idle. I am thinking of going with the petronix ignition. You mention a power relay. Could you enlighten me on the relay. I am nor familiar with it. Thanks, Kees

You need the relay as the older Ford ignitions have a resistance wire built into the system that steppes down the voltage after the engine is started. This is so it doesn't burn out the points. The power relay is a simple relay you install that bypasses that system so the car can get the full 12volts.

 

[64ZCODE]

Thanks OAO.

Kees, here's a picture of the Pertronix power relay, the part number is 2001. It has four leads: one to ground, one to hot + power, a third lead that connects to your existing ignition wiring that currently goes to the + coil terminal, and the last one which now will go to the + coil terminal. So the existing ignition wire from your ignition switch triggers the relay, which then connects a full 12v to the + coil terminal. The relay comes with long leads so you can mount it where you want.

If you decide to go with the Pertronix, recommend you get the Pertronix III module which delivers multiple pulses to the coil for each piston power stroke, essentially a spark box. Also, get the hotter coil, replace your spark plug wires with 8.5mm MSD wires or equivalent, and open up the spark plug gaps an additional .007 (so if standard gap is .035, new gap will be .042).

Re: the picture below, I've since replaced the old yellow Accel wires with new MSD wires and it made a noticeable difference and looks just a whole lot better!

Doug

 

[OneAmongOthers]

Did the same with my car too. Also... open up my plug gap you say? Interesting... I will do the same with mine once it stops raining here.

 

[64ZCODE]

Yes, Pertronix recommends the gap increase. More energy reaching the plugs, greater gap the spark will jump.

 

[OneAmongOthers]

Yes, Pertronix recommends the gap increase. More energy reaching the plugs, greater gap the spark will jump.

Soo will I have to redo the timing as well? I set the initial timing at around 11-12ish degrees BTC. Total timing is about 25ish I believe BTC. Not to sure about the second as I really had a hard time seeing it.

 

[64ZCODE]

No, the Pertronix just replaces the points so you don't need to change the timing, although it's certainly good to check it once in awhile. 15 degrees BTDC initial timing works well for the 390. I believe total timing should be in the 35-35 degrees BTDC range.

I'm a fan of using manifold vacuum versus ported vacuum for the vacuum advance. There are arguments both ways, but I find that throttle response is better using manifold vacuum. Worth trying if you haven't experimented with it before.

 

[kees]

You need the relay as the older Ford ignitions have a resistance wire built into the system that steppes down the voltage after the engine is started. This is so it doesn't burn out the points. The power relay is a simple relay you install that bypasses that system so the car can get the full 12volts.

Hi Doug, Thanks so much for your help. I just ordered The Pertronix ignition and relay. Will also replace plug wires, sparkplugs, distributor cap and rotor. Thanks again.