Rebuild on 64

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kkkaiser

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Hi, i am not a t bird owner, but considering one. seller says smoke coming from breather and feels a rebuild may be required.

I am wondering what the cost of a rebuild would be 1) if turned over to a shop to do, or 2) labor aside, if i did it myself and the cost of parts required. This would be for the basic rebuild, not for souping up or big HP boost,, Just to get it back to good operation condition that I can count on.

I'm trying to see what the cost would be so i can come up with a potential offer...discounted for rebuild.. thanks in advance for any pre ownership info anyone can provide..



Sincerely
Kim
 
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kkkaiser said:
Hi, i am not a third owner, but considering one. seller says smoke coming from breather and feels a rebuild may be required.

I am wondering what the cost of a rebuild would be 1) if turned over to a shop to do, or 2) labor aside, if i did it myself and the cost of parts required.

I'm trying to see what the cost would be so i can come up with a potential offer...discounted for rebuild.. thanks in advance for any pre ownership info anyone can provide..


Sincerely
Kim
Click to expand...
Kim,
It all depends “how much” smoke we are talking about. A complete rebuild will cost you several thousand dollars.
A “little” smoke (if that’s what it is) is acceptable on an old engine. It’s called, “blow-by” and all engines have some to some degree. Newer engines have it, but you don’t see much as the breathing system is closed and it gets “recycled “.
It also is “steam” burning off from moisture in the oil from sitting a long time. Before spending all that money, change your oil to a heavier grade (10w-40, or 20w-50) and see if it still does it. Then again, if the motor has over 100,000 miles on it, it probably needs to be rebuilt.
 
Thanks, this is description from seller regarding smoke. I changed tge spark plugs and wires, and now I'm getting smoke coming from the breather. I'm afraid some piston rings need replaced. Mileage cant be verified, accoding to owner.
 
kkkaiser said:
Hi, i am not a t bird owner, but considering one. seller says smoke coming from breather and feels a rebuild may be required.

I am wondering what the cost of a rebuild would be 1) if turned over to a shop to do, or 2) labor aside, if i did it myself and the cost of parts required. This would be for the basic rebuild, not for souping up or big HP boost,, Just to get it back to good operation condition that I can count on.

I'm trying to see what the cost would be so i can come up with a potential offer...discounted for rebuild.. thanks in advance for any pre ownership info anyone can provide..



Sincerely
Kim
Click to expand...
Start with a compression test. This will tell you if you have ring or valve problems. If both are good, you may only have to replace the valve seals.
 
Great ideas. Kim, if possible it would be good to have a mechanic or knowledgeable friend assess the engine's condition. It would be well worth a few bucks now. If you trust the seller and he is remote, then you could ask him to do the checks listed below. And if it turns out that the engine is OK to run for the foreseeable future, you have a seller that seems resigned to accepting less for the car because he thinks the engine is going south, so you could get a nice discount on the price.

To build on what others have already said, here's what I would do:

Does the engine run smoothly? If not, is it missing solidly on one of more cylinders? If so, that could be rings but also could be ignition system defective parts like disty cap and rotor, plugs, or plug wires. Get the seller to send you an audio recording of the running engine if you can.

What is the oil pressure reading? The car's oil pressure gauge may not be accurate, but worth asking the question. If seller says something like "it's low and drops like a stone when the engine idles", then the crankshaft and/or rod bearings are probably going bad.

With engine running, remove the breather or oil fill cap on the valve cover, put your hand over the opening and see how much blow-by is pushing out. Some is normal, but if it's puffing and putting pressure on your hand, that could indicate rings going bad. A variation of this test is to hook a vacuum gauge up to manifold vacuum. If when idling, the gauge needle jumps around, that indicates one of more bad cylinders with rings or valve issues.

Check for smoke in the exhaust. Rev the engine to check for visible smoke, then have someone drive the car and follow them to see if it smokes while the car is idling and as it accelerates. Visible blue smoke is a bummer. A little blue smoke on start-up could indicate leaking valve guide seals, which is not that expensive to fix.

If you're getting significant blow-by and blue smoke, then do the compression test. More than a 20% variation in compression between cylinders indicates a ring or valve problem, and there is a way to tell which it is.

Good luck with this,

Doug
 
As a point of reference on rebuilds. Oh and I agree with everything said above. Get an oil pressure tester on the car. Vacuum test and compression test too. You want to check engine health before you do anything else. This will really determine how much of a "rebuild" is required. It could be something simple or a total rebuild that also requires machine shop work on the block and heads. Though back to my original statement. I was quoted around $6000 to rebuild the 460 in my 69. Heck most shops will charge you just to pull the engine even before they dive into it. Do the diagnostics yourself and save yourself a ton of money before handing it off to a shop. This way you have a much clearer idea what needs to be done.
 
Hi again,

just want ed to thank everyone for ideas. the car is about 12 hours away, and I dont know anyone in the area that could do these test. i wold really like to pick up a black t bird convertible, but just too many uncertainties from too far a distance,

again, thank your for your input. i will keep it in mind for further searches,,
Sincerely
Kim
 
kkkaiser said:
Hi again,

just want ed to thank everyone for ideas. the car is about 12 hours away, and I dont know anyone in the area that could do these test. i wold really like to pick up a black t bird convertible, but just too many uncertainties from too far a distance,

again, thank your for your input. i will keep it in mind for further searches,,
Sincerely
Kim
Click to expand...
Yup, buying one sight unseen could be quite a gamble!
 
i earlier requested a second question regarding a couple of 64 models, one was a convertible, the other, i outlined a few issues, one of the issues was that y0u had to jiggle the steering wheel to get the engine to start,,,, sometimes... but that it would start readily in the neutral position.

a responder said that it was a repairable item,, and mentioned enjoy the hunt for parts,, Should I take it that the parts to repair this possible issue, something about a detent,,(original thread deleted by moderators) so I'm going on memory, is hard to find..?? is there a thread here regarding this, that i can find to determine if with in my repair capabilities.

Sincerely
kim
 
kkkaiser said:
i earlier requested a second question regarding a couple of 64 models, one was a convertible, the other, i outlined a few issues, one of the issues was that y0u had to jiggle the steering wheel to get the engine to start,,,, sometimes... but that it would start readily in the neutral position.

a responder said that it was a repairable item,, and mentioned enjoy the hunt for parts,, Should I take it that the parts to repair this possible issue, something about a detent,,(original thread deleted by moderators) so I'm going on memory, is hard to find..?? is there a thread here regarding this, that i can find to determine if with in my repair capabilities.

Sincerely
kim
Click to expand...
kkkaiser said:
i earlier requested a second question regarding a couple of 64 models, one was a convertible, the other, i outlined a few issues, one of the issues was that y0u had to jiggle the steering wheel to get the engine to start,,,, sometimes... but that it would start readily in the neutral position.

a responder said that it was a repairable item,, and mentioned enjoy the hunt for parts,, Should I take it that the parts to repair this possible issue, something about a detent,,(original thread deleted by moderators) so I'm going on memory, is hard to find..?? is there a thread here regarding this, that i can find to determine if with in my repair capabilities.

Sincerely
kim
Click to expand...


Kim,
Most likely it is the detent plate in the steering column. They are available at any of the Thunderbird warehouse’s or on Square bird.com. I believe they are about $25. There is a detailed picture and description of how to make this repair if you go on Google or Squarebirdcom and put in detent replacement. I have four Thunderbirds and did this repair to all four of my birds and it solved the problem as you described.

Hope this helps, Jim
 
If you google steering column repair for your car there are quite a few links that will come up. If your still having questions your more than welcome to shoot me a message and I can help, I’ve done quite a few and I can forward you some copies of old tech tips I’ve gathered over the years
 
40birds said:
If you google steering column repair for your car there are quite a few links that will come up. If your still having questions your more than welcome to shoot me a message and I can help, I’ve done quite a few and I can forward you some copies of old tech tips I’ve gathered over the years
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thanks,, I'm still in the looking to make the deal stage with the fellow. havent quite pulled trigger,,, was concerned about some of these issues and considering these types of repairs for my offer,, the other items were the gas tank gauge didnt work, and per owner, the accelerator pump leaks a little, he thought it was a diaphragm in there the needed repair, so I'm trying to figure out what these things are worth in my time and effort to make a deal
 
The parts for the steering column are inexpensive and readily available. I've been told to, instead of buying a new shift lever, to take the old one to a welder and have him reshape it -- this lasts longer. If you only replace the lever itself, it's easy-peazy -- just pull out the pin, remove and replace. The doughnut requires removing the entire column, but I understand you can cheat by slicing it and pushing it into place from underneath the car.

A carb rebuild kit is cheap, or you can have your carb rebuilt, or you can buy an Edelbrock if you don't mind non-originality.

I'm almost to the point of laughing, because compared to what I've dealt with on my car, this is nothing. But consider this: if I were to do it again, I would not have bought a project. I would have bought a clean car to begin with. If the car you're looking at is in great condition except for what you've described, snap it up. As I've stated many times, these cars are expensive to restore and worth little when completed, so the better bargain is to buy a good one. EVERY collector car is going to need something or other, but if what you described is all you need, this seems quite simple.
 
Gary Tayman said:
The parts for the steering column are inexpensive and readily available. I've been told to, instead of buying a new shift lever, to take the old one to a welder and have him reshape it -- this lasts longer. If you only replace the lever itself, it's easy-peazy -- just pull out the pin, remove and replace. The doughnut requires removing the entire column, but I understand you can cheat by slicing it and pushing it into place from underneath the car.

A carb rebuild kit is cheap, or you can have your carb rebuilt, or you can buy an Edelbrock if you don't mind non-originality.

I'm almost to the point of laughing, because compared to what I've dealt with on my car, this is nothing. But consider this: if I were to do it again, I would not have bought a project. I would have bought a clean car to begin with. If the car you're looking at is in great condition except for what you've described, snap it up. As I've stated many times, these cars are expensive to restore and worth little when completed, so the better bargain is to buy a good one. EVERY collector car is going to need something or other, but if what you described is all you need, this seems quite simple.
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YEs,, i have learned the hard way a 73 eldo,,on getting all the completion you get for your money on the front end. I have a 63 cadillac that i bought in good shape, did have to make some repairs,, guys at 6364 forum gave me good advice to get things along,, not really parts issues, but diagnosis stuff,, but together we got it doing fine.. i consider my 63 an elegant car, and the T bird, a sporty elegant car. just my opinion not to stir anything up, thats just how i see them. what i didnt remember as a kid and havent seen one in a while, is that these t birds are long!! the body lines dont convey that in pictures, but when you walk up on one, you realize they are indeed big cars, there styling just doesnt show that as much,,,at least to me

this t bird I'm considering has been repainted, one owner since 64, engine rebuilt in late 90s with 300o miles since,, and that is what kind of concerns me.. i like to drive my cars, so I'm concerned some of the new seals and stuff replaced may be drying out with out use,, interior is in very good shape, no tears, not worn, onlytotal 64k miles on the car..

thanks for all the advice,,
 
in re the repair carb or replace carb with edelbrock, is that a stock fit, or does additional fabrication need to be done or additional gaskets, need to be put in for this swap? I'm not to heavily into originality, i just want the thing to be reliable and run
 
kkkaiser said:
in re the repair carb or replace carb with edelbrock, is that a stock fit, or does additional fabrication need to be done or additional gaskets, need to be put in for this swap? I'm not to heavily into originality, i just want the thing to be reliable and run
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I am pretty sure edelbrock is a drop in replacement. Though I too would go with a edelbrock or perhaps weiand intake to replace the older cast iron one which is by this time all pitted probably. You will save weight and the newer intake will help your engine perform better too.
 
Hey KKKaiser, if you want reliability, buy a Toyota. TBirds deliver class in an eye catching way that leaves reliable cars in the dust. Drink the cool-aid, take the plunge, buy the sucker and enjoy. You'll never look back:)

Doug
 
64ZCODE said:
Hey KKKaiser, if you want reliability, buy a Toyota. TBirds deliver class in an eye catching way that leaves reliable cars in the dust. Drink the cool-aid, take the plunge, buy the sucker and enjoy. You'll never look back:)

Doug
Click to expand...
 
Hey all, I'm back again, still negotiating with owner on above 64, Seller got carb rebuilt to fix the leaking accelerator pump, we took out for a ride,, all seemed well, until we pulled up to an on ramp to get on the interstate, after the initial slowdown, to make the curve to climb the ramp, i put down the accelerator and got a pretty good hesitation, and then vroom, off we went, he was a bit surprised at the delay. after several attempts to recreate the condition, and determined at a slowdown to about 15 to 20 mph, and if you gave it a good push on the accel, it would hesitate and in two cases it died, had to pull over, and restart. it didnt seem to ever do this hesitation then accelerate over 20 mph, it was always immediately responsive at higher speeds.. only at 10 to 20 mph..

seller thought it was a carb adjustment,, so we went from one full turn to a 3/4 turn to a 1.5 turn on those screws on the front of the carb, but never did get it right. he was a bit confused as well, so my question is, what could cause that delay in acceleration or cause the engine to stall out after a slow down,, he has replaced the fuel pump, and now the carb rebuild, i can speculate but I'm not a real mechanic so i thought i would through that out...he has not changed plugs, wires, or done timing in 20 plus years, could that be a culprit to this??

another item arose i didn't remember from earlier rides. steering has about a 3 inch, high and low play. total of 6 inches,, i seem to have read about some suspension items common on this era car, or would something else be the cause of that much play, if forgot to check the rag joint, area, but was looking for quick thoughts there.

i am just trying to figure how much more I'm going to have to go in at a minimum after the initial purchase on a couple of these items, especially the ones where actual driving performance is of a concern.

thanks a gain for any input, i am a novice, thus the questions.

Sincerely
Kim
 
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