PerTronix 1281 Ignitor & tune-up for inspection

[Shadrack]

Hey Folks!

Okay,
So, I need to get my car transferred into my name, 64 thunderbird. This requires honking horn, turn signals, and brake lights - also the car has to drive over there - it is really a silly inspection and is only done for out of state car transfer (rolls eyes hard).

Right now the car starts right up but is running rich. I took a good look under the hood and there are old and broken vacuum lines, a vacuum advance that is steel but has rubber flared over it to connect to the Edelbrock 1406. The antifreeze is weak, oil is filthy, and the power steering belt is loose/almost flopping and the pump is low.

I bought a new power steering pump belt, I bought a can of seafoam for the older carb, I also bought new plugs. I figured I would do the seafoam treatment with the old plugs and then change them. I also bought all new fluids.

I invested in a PerTronix 1281 Ignitor. It is my understanding that I can pretty much pull the old internals out, clean the plate in the distributor, install this PerTronix 1281 Ignitor and I am good to go. Is this true, am I missing anything? Looks VERY plug and play.

I am hoping between replacing all the vacuum lines, cleaning out the carb, converting over to electronic ignition that I might solve the rich problem. I am not a carb tuner guy, I am willing to learn but time is getting short to get this thing transferred. (bought a new horn relay hoping that might fix the horn)

SO, if all this does not work - my mechanic said he would fix the horn or get it "to work someway." I am going to have him also fix the rich condition as well or make suggestions.

I appreciate all the help folks - I am getting my feet wet.

Also, I wanted to say - this was bought as a distraction/ something to focus on - my mother is dying with stage IV cancer and I am her secondary caregiver. So I am a little scattered but need this hobby to survive - it has been 3 years and I am so tired. Also working full-time and have a multiply disabled brother I am caring part-time for as well - so lots of time lol

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[64ZCODE]

Hey Don, sorry to hear about your Mom. My wife is in the ICU as we speak. For me, it seems the bad things that have happened are ones that I never anticipated, proving that it's useless to worry about jack shoot. Or as Bill Murray says, "it doesn't matter", by which he means that things that appear bad may turn out good, and things that start out good can go south, so let's not sweat it as it unfolds.

Anyway - yes, the Pertronix install is easy. Once the module is in place, you need to pass the wires through the hole in the body of the distributor and connect them up, and that's it. Might even help with the rich running condition. Solving a rich running condition usually means rebuilding or replacing the carb.

Tell you what, I have a Holley 600 cfm carb with vacuum secondaries sitting on the bench doing nothing and I'd be happy to pop it in a box and send it to you if it will help. It worked fine on my '64 when I took it off to replace it with the 670 cfm Holley carb that I'm running now. Let me know.

Semper prorsum,

Doug

 

[Shadrack]

Hey Doug,
I am so sorry to hear about your wife - I hope for a speedy recovery! My heart and prayers are with you and your family my friend.

This hobby is keeping me sane. I look out the window at my bird in the garage and dream of long rides with my sweetheart. I named the car Rose in honor of my mother - she is still with us...but not for long - I feel like I am being torn apart inside. I have cared for her for years and our family was shunned by their respective families due to my brother's illness - long long story - but we have been close-knit and all that we have). My dad and I care for her and my 33-year-old multiply disabled brother (in short - the mind of 7-year-old and anger issues and a whole host of other mental issues) - we switch back and forth care and work schedules. Going out for just a few minutes and sitting in the 'bird helps me so much.

Glad to hear that about the Pertronix!! Sweet! I just cannot dump money in an MSD or a Mallory and honestly...I don't wanna if this works just as well in all reality. I am hoping that the seafoam soak will help free up the carb. I am cleaning it the best I know how/videos show me how - so we shall see how that works lol - if I post about being a recent burn victim do not be surprised!

That is an awesome offer on the Holley and I will PM you about it if I am still running rich after the clean and upgrade(s)/repairs - I just need to get past this inspection. I am not registering the car, I just need to transfer it over - I know it will be a year or more before it is roadworthy - just need to get to the DMV that is 6 miles from the house and back. You would think of all states, Kentucky, would be easy - heck, I am surprised we are even required to have a drivers licenses lol - seriously though, many people do have one here that do not need one!

Best wishes to you and yours
Four years of Latin and I will say: luctor et emergo - Roughly (I struggle and I emerge)

Don

 

[64ZCODE]

Hey Doug,
I am so sorry to hear about your wife - I hope for a speedy recovery! My heart and prayers are with you and your family my friend.

This hobby is keeping me sane. I look out the window at my bird in the garage and dream of long rides with my sweetheart. I named the car Rose in honor of my mother - she is still with us...but not for long - I feel like I am being torn apart inside. I have cared for her for years and our family was shunned by their respective families due to my brother's illness - long long story - but we have been close-knit and all that we have). My dad and I care for her and my 33-year-old multiply disabled brother (in short - the mind of 7-year-old and anger issues and a whole host of other mental issues) - we switch back and forth care and work schedules. Going out for just a few minutes and sitting in the 'bird helps me so much.

Glad to hear that about the Pertronix!! Sweet! I just cannot dump money in an MSD or a Mallory and honestly...I don't wanna if this works just as well in all reality. I am hoping that the seafoam soak will help free up the carb. I am cleaning it the best I know how/videos show me how - so we shall see how that works lol - if I post about being a recent burn victim do not be surprised!

That is an awesome offer on the Holley and I will PM you about it if I am still running rich after the clean and upgrade(s)/repairs - I just need to get past this inspection. I am not registering the car, I just need to transfer it over - I know it will be a year or more before it is roadworthy - just need to get to the DMV that is 6 miles from the house and back. You would think of all states, Kentucky, would be easy - heck, I am surprised we are even required to have a drivers licenses lol - seriously though, many people do have one here that do not need one!

Best wishes to you and yours
Four years of Latin and I will say: luctor et emergo - Roughly (I struggle and I emerge)

Don

Hey Don. I think the Pertronix is about as good as an HEI disty or anyway I wouldn’t be able to tell the difference. Also, some of the HEI distys stick up above the surge tank and look dorky to me.

I’m no stranger to family estrangement. Like they say, there’s the family you’re born with and the family you end up with because you like them.

I know what you mean about Tbirds. It’s the happy thought like what made Peter Pan able to fly. Such a high, totally legal and nobody gets hurt. And, as my wife likes to say, it’s “cheaper than another woman”. I’m not sure what she’s talking about, but she usually knows best so I’m going along with it.

Us car guys are a lucky bunch indeed.

Let me know on the carb, it’s a standing offer!

Doug

 

[Shadrack]

Hey Everyone,
Was able to take a break today for an hour from caretaking and decided to fiddle with the carb a bit to see if I could get the rich condition helped a bit. My car came with a 1406 when I bought it and it looks not only ancient, but really messed around with. Car is running super rich. I replace a few more vacuum lines and decided to take carb somewhat apart on the car - first time working on a carb internally. I pulled the top off and saw all kinds of crud in the float bowls. Cleaned it all out. Then I cleaned out the primary's and secondaries, shot compressed air into the mixture screw holes and generally cleaned things up. I also reset the floats, they were way off.

Gaskets are old in it, sealed them up a bit, top gasket that is....then while cleaning the secondaries I squirted carb cleaner in my eye....OMG that hurt SO BAD. I ran to the hose and ran it over my eye for like 5 minutes...

Went back, put it all together. I am hoping to get all the fuses back in Thursday and see what works and what does not(sprayed more contact cleaner on it). I will try starting it Friday or Saturday. I will report back about the fuses on that thread and update the carb situation in this one.

If I cannot get any joy out of the carb this time, I will be in contact Doug - really appreciate it!

 

[64ZCODE]

Hi Don. A few thoughts on this:

- Edelbrock 1406 is a 600 CFM carb so isn't too big for the 390
- Best to see if you can get the carb to run lean at idle first. If the carb is running rich at mid range, then you may need to fiddle with the step up springs.
- Is it truly running rich while idling? You would see black smoke from the tailpipe, smell raw gas, and spark plugs will foul. If it runs too rich for long enough, there will be gas in the oil
- Main reasons for a carb running rich at idle are float level set too high, leaking float, stuck float needle valve, incorrectly adjusted idle mix screws, airflow into carb restricted by plugged filter or closed choke, fuel pressure too high
- Are you confident the float levels are set according spec?
- Could one of the floats have a leak? If so that would mean gas would overfill the bowl
- Check to ensure the float needle valves do not have crud in them which would cause them to stick
- To set idle screws, first set the idle speed screw to correct idle speed, then set the idle mix screws, then re-set the idle speed screw if necessary. Turning an idle mix screw clockwise leans out the mix, so turn the screw in until the engine stumbles, then turn it back out until the engine smooths out. You can also hook up a vacuum gauge to manifold vacuum and adjust the idle screws until maximum vacuum at idle is obtained.
- If turning the idle mix screws in and out doesn't make much difference, then you likely have a vacuum leak somewhere, either in a vacuum line/circuit or leakage in the carb body. That's good to know and to resolve, however a vacuum leak on a carbureted motor should make the motor idle too lean, not too rich

If the above doesn't resolve the idle run rich condition, then it would seem something more sinister is going on with your carb!

I googled the 1406 and here's a YouTube video that might be helpful:

Quaerite et invenietis,

Doug

 

[Shadrack]

Hi Don. A few thoughts on this:

- Edelbrock 1406 is a 600 CFM carb so isn't too big for the 390
- Best to see if you can get the carb to run lean at idle first. If the carb is running rich at mid range, then you may need to fiddle with the step up springs.
- Is it truly running rich while idling? You would see black smoke from the tailpipe, smell raw gas, and spark plugs will foul. If it runs too rich for long enough, there will be gas in the oil
- Main reasons for a carb running rich at idle are float level set too high, leaking float, stuck float needle valve, incorrectly adjusted idle mix screws, airflow into carb restricted by plugged filter or closed choke, fuel pressure too high
- Are you confident the float levels are set according spec?
- Could one of the floats have a leak? If so that would mean gas would overfill the bowl
- Check to ensure the float needle valves do not have crud in them which would cause them to stick
- To set idle screws, first set the idle speed screw to correct idle speed, then set the idle mix screws, then re-set the idle speed screw if necessary. Turning an idle mix screw clockwise leans out the mix, so turn the screw in until the engine stumbles, then turn it back out until the engine smooths out. You can also hook up a vacuum gauge to manifold vacuum and adjust the idle screws until maximum vacuum at idle is obtained.
- If turning the idle mix screws in and out doesn't make much difference, then you likely have a vacuum leak somewhere, either in a vacuum line/circuit or leakage in the carb body. That's good to know and to resolve, however a vacuum leak on a carbureted motor should make the motor idle too lean, not too rich

If the above doesn't resolve the idle run rich condition, then it would seem something more sinister is going on with your carb!

I googled the 1406 and here's a YouTube video that might be helpful:

Quaerite et invenietis,

Doug

Doug,
I cannot think you enough - this is a treasure trove of information! I will get on it ASAP!! When it starts or runs it leaves black soot on the garage wall or near the floor if I am pulling out. The plugs smelly gassy as does the oil. I think it is a running rich issue - but I am a little afraid of engine problems with the rings or something...I hope not.

 

[64ZCODE]

Hey Don. You'll be able to eliminate the rich idle condition, then you'll be able to tell if there are issues beyond that. Hopefully not!

Doug

 

[Shadrack]

Hey Don. You'll be able to eliminate the rich idle condition, then you'll be able to tell if there are issues beyond that. Hopefully not!

Doug

If there are...I guess I will be pulling a motor lol. Na, I will restore things around it, get everything together, then have a rebuild done. I even wondered - I know it sounds crazy and I don't wanna really, but if I could fit an LT1 and tranny in it. I have a 96 roadmaster that was destroyed by a deer but runs and pulls GREAT!

 

[64ZCODE]

The station wagon? Crazier shoot had been done by our colleagues on this forum, I’m sure!

 

[Shadrack]

The station wagon? Crazier shoot had been done by our colleagues on this forum, I’m sure!

I could not do that to a station wagon, love those things. It's a sedan - we shall see 🙂

 

[Douglemmo]

Hey Everyone,
Was able to take a break today for an hour from caretaking and decided to fiddle with the carb a bit to see if I could get the rich condition helped a bit. My car came with a 1406 when I bought it and it looks not only ancient, but really messed around with. Car is running super rich. I replace a few more vacuum lines and decided to take carb somewhat apart on the car - first time working on a carb internally. I pulled the top off and saw all kinds of crud in the float bowls. Cleaned it all out. Then I cleaned out the primary's and secondaries, shot compressed air into the mixture screw holes and generally cleaned things up. I also reset the floats, they were way off.

Gaskets are old in it, sealed them up a bit, top gasket that is....then while cleaning the secondaries I squirted carb cleaner in my eye....OMG that hurt SO BAD. I ran to the hose and ran it over my eye for like 5 minutes...

Went back, put it all together. I am hoping to get all the fuses back in Thursday and see what works and what does not(sprayed more contact cleaner on it). I will try starting it Friday or Saturday. I will report back about the fuses on that thread and update the carb situation in this one.

If I cannot get any joy out of the carb this time, I will be in contact Doug - really appreciate it!

If this car or carb are new to you or the carb is not original to the car/engine you have, how do you know that the jets are the right size? I had a problem with very lean operation, dyno tested the car and found the jets were much to small. The correct jets made huge difference.
Hope this helps.

 

[64ZCODE]

You make a really good point, Douglemmo. With a used carb someone may have monkeyed with the jets which could cause either too lean or too rich condition in mid-range rpm. Edelbrock carbs also have metering rods and step up springs that are interchangeable to further add to what may not be stock in Don’s carb.

But first things first, get the mix correct at idle, then deal with fuel issues if any in the mid-range rpm.

Doug

 

[Shadrack]

You make a really good point, Douglemmo. With a used carb someone may have monkeyed with the jets which could cause either too lean or too rich condition in mid-range rpm. Edelbrock carbs also have metering rods and step up springs that are interchangeable to further add to what may not be stock in Don’s carb.

But first things first, get the mix correct at idle, then deal with fuel issues if any in the mid-range rpm.

Doug

Hey guys,
I got ahold of edelbrock today per your suggestions and they told me for my geographic region and unknown state of the car to buy new metering rods, new springs, and new jets. I didn't know I would be rebuilding my first carb lol, but I guess here we go! I really appreciate all of you guys- this is a wonderful community!

 

[64ZCODE]

Hey Don. Metering rods, springs and jets all have to do with controlling fuel mix during mid- and upper-range rpms. Before plunking money down on those things, which you may not need, recommend you see if you can get the beast to idle without running rich (my post above). If you can get it to do that, then you can determine if you need all that other stuff. Make sense?

Doug

 

[Shadrack]

Hey Don. Metering rods, springs and jets all have to do with controlling fuel mix during mid- and upper-range rpms. Before plunking money down on those things, which you may not need, recommend you see if you can get the beast to idle without running rich (my post above). If you can get it to do that, then you can determine if you need all that other stuff. Make sense?

Doug

That is really good info Doug, I will give it a start tomorrow - or try lol. After all, I had it apart 🙂 I need a day to work on the car, i need to get the water pump, new hoses, and new lines on. I think once that is done I will be ready for this PITA inspection.