MRSP

[Allen Milewicz]

I bought a 2002 in Houston this week for MRSP from a dealer--brand new. There is another dealer who has 5 cars and will sell at MRSP-- after some back and forth stuff. The excitement is over. Many people snatched these cars up over sticker in the hopes of a quick profit. Now these cars are coming back--showing up at auctions with 50-1000 miles. Many small dealers can't sell these cars and they are moved to bigger cities. There are lots of vanity two seater cars out there and as these T birds get priced above sticker, they are no longer competitive with other makes.
I believe a lot of market analysis goes into a manufacturer placing an MRSP.
Sure, they're cool cars, but they're just cars, and they depreciate in value the minute they leave the lot. And if you pay over sticker, especially now, I believe that is money thrown away that can never be recouped.
Many of the cars were ordered by dealers with (I believe) gaudy interiors and now as sanity is returning, people are being more selective about what they are buying and what they are willing to pay.
As the 2003 will soon be released the dealers sitting on 2002 will be more reasonable. Nobody needs a two seater T bird, and if you can put off your impatience, you will be rewarded. I suspect many will show up on used car lots in 6-8 months.

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[Norman]

Gaudy interiors? On a Thunderbird? I haven't seen one.

 

[Gobird]

Allen, some of what you say may be true, But you are in for a lot of discussion on a lot of other things you have said. Don't think you have been following the board for very long. Yes I got mine for MSRP but a lot were NOT able to get an 02 for that.


PS. By the way are you related to a guy with the initials GW ??

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02 T-Bird 9293
69 Vette
73 MGB
97 F-150 4x4
2-Seadoo Jet Skies
a dog a cat and a couple hundred fish in my pond

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[whvt01]

Some are still trying !!

Went to a show yesterday in New Braunfels.

I had heard about a used red one from our
salesman but I didn't ask any questions.
Just figured it was full loaded prem model
for $45,000.

Well it had a basic interior, no fog lamps,
no hardtop. They had $43,999 on the
window. I was only at the show a short
time and no one was looking at the car.
A few were looking at some others under
the tent. Only colors represented were
Black and Red. No white, Blue or Yellow.
Someone had a real nice pink or coral bird
?? on year. Most were the 4 seat versions.

Maybe its like you say, they have been out
long enough that most folks have seen the
car.

 

[niteflight]

Anyone who wants to see this car as an economic proposition is welcome to - and even to post on this board. But for others of us who have - for decades, since we were barely old enough to think about cars - believed that a 2-seat T-Bird roadster is the most beautiful thing to have ever rolled on 4 wheels - it is much, much more than that. If you want a safe investment, try Money Market funds. If you want a transportation appliance, try a Corolla. If you want a 4-wheeled love affair, then put your money up and go for it. I'll tell you one person whose car won't be showing up on a used car lot any time soon.

As for the remark about gaudy interiors, that is a matter of taste, and I won't fault anyone who has gone for the low-key approach. But I have had people literally cackle with glee looking over my car, including the full-accent interior. I will again quote Frank Lloyd Wright on the subject: "Any great thing is too much of whatever it is." For a car with the extreme beauty and legendary status of the T-Bird, "over-the-top" is a perfectly legitimate way to go.

p.s. whvt01; better check your info on that "4 seat version", unless you were at a used car show.

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[InfernoRed]

Oh,I doubt most folks have seen the car yet...in fact just the opposite(at least in person).This same thing was stated..almost word for word about my little cars 2 years ago.Now,granted,my particular choice is being produced at far larger numbers than the T-Bird and so many are on lots nation wide.But sales are still good and the price allows for relatively easy purchaseing as well as personal customization...which I think is helping continue sales.With the Turbo coming in fall and the Convertible next spring...sales will still continue.

This all being said without vehicle make/model being mentioned was intentional.The T-Bird is in the same basic concept BUT aimed at an entirely different upscale clientel.The customers will be there....as to the "gaudy interior" remarks....obviously this individual does not remember or is familliar with Sublime Green and Plum Crazy Purple that the occasional MOPAR Challenger or Cuda wore in the late 60's early 70's.These colors didn't sell well because of the "in your face" quality they possesed.But they were DIFFERENT,and today a MOPAR machine wearing its original Sublime or Plum is worth more than a sister vehicle in a more conventional color.So,enjoy the awesome interiors available as an option if you bought them.They stand out from the ho hum black or gray or tan interiors in the vast majority of autos.And if you are intending for the long term ownership....they will probably be worth more beside a sister vehicle with the all black interior.

So what the lead poster was really intending I am not sure.If it was just to say paying over MSRP is ridiculous...I must agree...after all,NO car is technically worth more than MSRP.Is he saying cars are not a good longterm investment?For the most part,TRUE.....But so what??Most people who buy a car for longterm ownership buy it for thier own reason...sometimes the vehicle just happens to go way up in value in 25 years or so.Still,go to any car show and listen to how many people are saying such things as "Man,I should've bought that 69 Chevelle and kept it all my life" or "Man I had a 68 Charger new...that was some machine...wish I still had it."These statements are made in wild variations at many car shows every year.Some people did just that...bought new and kept them all these years and do not regret it in the least.If you ask me,they were smart.They have fairly rare machines that they have maintained throughout the years as opposed to those who have bought one far later and invested large sums to restore for the same basic pleasure.....who is the wiser owner?

I wish I could afford a 2002 T-Bird but I simply cannot.Economics is economics.I do have two cool little cars though and enjoy every minute and aspect of them as you guys enjoy your T-Birds.So keep on cruising........

InfernoRed

 

[DavidA]

What niteflight and InfernoRed said is exactly right. The cars most of us bought was a love affair from the getgo. Making money, or buying it as an investment was not a consideration .... driving one of the most beaautiful cars on the road was. As for the gaudy interiors, of course it's a personal thing, but for me, a retro style car cries out for a retro style interior. When I ordered my 2 cars, I originally ordered them both black, one with the Full red interior and one with the black accent. Fortunately, I got the one with the red interior back in August. The other one, I changed to Blue with the full Blue interior and am still waiting for it. There was only one negative comment I ever heard about the red interior and that was from the most concervative person I know. Now, even he drools every time he sees the car. As I said, it's all personal taste, but for me, the full interior package sets off the car and really makes it a standout.
I paid MSRP and was happy to do so. However, that was the first time I EVER paid list for a car. I got it early and have enjoyed every single mile I've put on it. I'd do it again in a heartbeat. This car is as close to perfect as you can get. Sure, there will be improvements and additions as the years go on, but that's true of any car. Early PT Cruisers were bringing as much as $10,000 over list and now they can be had for deep discounts. They are adding superchargers, convertibles and other things to keep the interest up. So what ..... those that have 'em enjoy them -- that's ALL that matters. How many negatives have you heard about the T-bird, and the PT for that matter? I haven't heard of anyone other than GW, turning away the T-bird. It's an absolute homerun no matter how you slice it.

 

[Allen Milewicz]

Well, this is the first time I ever put a comment on a forum and am amazed at the quick and heated discussion.

My main point is that the excitement has died down and the novelty is wearing off. Paying above MSRP is a function of supply and demand. I wanted to call attention to the fact that demand has cooled and that the same cars are available for less money.

During the negotiations one salesman said to me, "We'll take our licks and our losses, and sell the car at your price(sticker)." As if they were losing money selling the car at sticker!

I had ordered the car from one dealership at $5000 above sticker. When I found the same premium car, with fog lights, no front license bracket screwed on, I called my original dealer and asked if they would change my order to "sticker". They wouldn't, I bought the car elsewhere, and cancelled the original order. My first dealer had told me, six weeks previously, that their entire allotment was spoken for. I called that same dealer two days after the cancellation to see what they were selling the car for. They were still selling for 5000 above, and now they had two available.

I understand that people would be upset to learn that a car they had paid alot of money for was worth less so quickly. My purpose was to inform others what my recent expeience had been, that the market was changing, and that by shopping around some money could be saved.

 

[02birdman]

Well guys I paid 5k over and would do it again. I didn't have a car on order, I was made aware that my dealer had a extra one coming in with my father's car, who did have one on order for over a year. The car is the color I wanted and the wait was 30 minutes, I couldn't have rented or leased a tbird for these past 6 months for 5k and had the fun I've had with it. I run around with a guy who drives a viper and I can tell you when we arrive anywhere together, the t-bird has won the the most praise, people just love it. As for the over msrp, forget it, buying a t-bird with my father was priceless.

 

[whvt01]

p.s. whvt01; better check your info on that "4 seat version", unless you were at a used car show.

niteflight --- Nothing to check, it was a
T-Bird car show at the New Braunfels Ford
used car lot. Been talking about it for a
week.

 

[57 bluebird]

Hey Allen, Do you have a vin number. The way you talk I don't think you have ever even been in a T Bird

 

[Allen Milewicz]

Yes, 57 bluebird, I've got a vin number. I've also got a 57 inca gold, and in the past I've owned a 56 white and a 57 black. Just because I'm trying to put some things in perspective for people who are trying to
obtain a car, doesn't mean I don't love the cars. I also understand people get passionate about the things they buy and the decisions they made. They continue to rationalize them and don't want to be confused by the facts.

 

[DavidA]

AM: -- what I am not clear on, is why try to burst someone's bubble. I'm sure we all know that these cars are not investments. Most of us were driven by the passion for the cars and that is the main thing. If anyone bought them to make money, more power to them, but most of us here are of the passionate variety. Perspective and passion do not mix.

 

[rlstonejr]

AM: I am constantly surprised and often p.o.'d by how quickly members of this board criticize anyone who is the least bit critical of this car. I love my car - I can't wait to find excuses to drive it. Do I think it could be improved - absolutely. Do I think things could/should have been done better - you bet. Do I think it is overpriced - yes. Does any of that reduce my enthusiasm for the overall package - of course not. Can we discuss these issues intelligently on this forum and without personal attacks?- not usually and I apologize for that!

And since I will get several messages now about my post, let me apologize in advance to anyone who I have offended or to anyone whose intent I misunderstood.

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neiman vin#00035
delivered October 4, 2001

 

[DavidA]

None of these comments are meant to be personal criticism nor are they taken as such. I think as long as we ALL understand that these are simply dialogues amoung adults, than what is said here will be taken in the spirit in which they are written.

 

[Gobird]

Allen, I told you so. By the way, Welcome to the board. And yes I DID HAVE TO HAVE THIS BIRD!!! This has been my dream car since I was 7 or 8 years old. That was 45 some odd years ago.

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02 T-Bird 9293
69 Vette
73 MGB
97 F-150 4x4
2-Seadoo Jet Skies
a dog a cat and a couple hundred fish in my pond

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[greyfox11]

Originally posted by rlstonejr:
AM: I am constantly surprised and often p.o.'d by how quickly members of this board criticize anyone who is the least bit critical of this car. I love my car - I can't wait to find excuses to drive it. Do I think it could be improved - absolutely. Do I think things could/should have been done better - you bet. Do I think it is overpriced - yes. Does any of that reduce my enthusiasm for the overall package - of course not. Can we discuss these issues intelligently on this forum and without personal attacks?- not usually and I apologize for that!

And since I will get several messages now about my post, let me apologize in advance to anyone who I have offended or to anyone whose intent I misunderstood.

Very well stated! I am certain that some folks won't post concerns/observations/criticisms for fear of getting flamed. There is a lot of emotion and passion regarding these cars, and that is a good thing. There certainly should be a tolerance for those differing opinions.(the now gone GW excepted).
One of my early posts related my concern for the quality of the paint on my car-orange peel, poor coverage under hood and trunk. When I got responses of "Mine is perfect except for some orange peel and a few blemishes" I just dropped the subject. Perfect compared to what?
Like rlstonejr I really like this car too and I am one of the Californians that paid $5000 over msrp for it. I don't apologize for either of those things.
Room here for differing opinions? I think so.
Dean

 

[niteflight]

Alan Milewicz
"They continue to rationalize them and don't want to be confused by the facts."

It sounds like some of us are being accused of being soft in the head. Like any significant affair of the heart - I'm going to have to plead guilty on that one!

rlstonejr:
"Do I think it could be improved - absolutely. Do I think things could/should have been done better - you bet. Do I think it is overpriced - yes. Does any of that reduce my enthusiasm for the overall package - of course not."

Ditto.

Alan, I'd also like to repeat Gobird's welcome to the board, and congratulations on your purchase of the new Bird.

 

[RTBRD]

Allen,

I don't think I have you listed in the database, please see my thread "Database Info for the New Birds - post here Update 1", thanks.

RTBRD

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[Gobird]

Joe, I thought you would jump in here sooner or later.

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02 T-Bird 9293
69 Vette
73 MGB
97 F-150 4x4
2-Seadoo Jet Skies
a dog a cat and a couple hundred fish in my pond