Head gasket blown HELP! 2002

PhilD · Aug 27, 2020

Blue Bird said:
Thank you TBirders and especially to The Flame for coming out and taking a look. What a great bunch of folks. I drove it home safely. Still want a mechanic to check it out because it did overheat before.

Can I just ask why it went in to brake masters in the first place? I'm just curious.

biddle · Aug 27, 2020

Frankie the Fink said:
You may find its nothing more than a sticky thermostat or the like...

I agree, a good guess is definitely a failing thermostat!

Here is the overheating thread- https://forums.fordthunderbirdforum...nderbird-thermostat-housing-water-pumps.9778/

The Flash · Aug 27, 2020

I talked to the manager at Brake Masters and he talked very knowledgeably about what test they made and the needed repair and how to do it.
I don't believe they were trying to sham Ms. Blue Bird because they did not want to do the repair, nor did they recommend another repair shop. I do think the first test was a fluke or not done correctly.

When I tested with the OBD ll scanner it had one fault, P1299, Cyl head temp. sensor detected engine overheating condition. That was from the only time it overheated. Then she let the engine cool and dove the car home BUT it was in limp mode she said. She then drove it to the only shop she knew near her where she has had her oil changed. This Brake Master's do a lot of different repairs BUT not internal engine repairs.

The engine started right up and ran great. I did a running scan and was surprised at the lack of information available on the 2002 scan. I get a lot more info on my 2003, and three times as much information on my 2011 Cadillac CTS.

The 2002 model, I think, was built in a rush by Ford and they used a lot of Jaguar engineering. Jaguar tends to complicate things in their design or over design.

So for now the car runs great and does not overheat. BUT it did once.
But it did not get TOO hot because Ms. Blue Bird has not added any coolant to it and it is at the full mark on the coolant tank. It may have picked up a plastic bag in front of the radiator or a stuck thermostat.
The car needs a complete cooling system check, starting with the pressure cap on down.

Glad I could help.
Happy Motoring.

Frankie the Fink · Aug 28, 2020

The Flash said:
I talked to the manager at Brake Masters and he talked very knowledgeably about what test they made and the needed repair and how to do it.
I don't believe they were trying to sham Ms. Blue Bird because they did not want to do the repair, nor did they recommend another repair shop. I do think the first test was a fluke or not done correctly.

Call me skeptical after 55 years of driving/maintaining cars and owning many classics (many before they were classics) and dealing with a ton of repair facilities.

The first, unobserved combustion gas test proved positive and the second, when observed, was negative - a bit interesting I'd say. These tests are simple and nearly foolproof.

And I've dealt with shops that were reluctant to do tough repairs unless they could get "stupid money" for the work (e.g. $6,500 for a head gasket swap). I wasn't there and didn't see/hear all that went on; I WAS born at night, but not last night.

I'd hate to see an unemployed, struggling young person shell out 6 G's for a thermostat swap touted as a head gasket replacement; trust me; I've seen shadier things done. Enough said.

05Dave · Aug 28, 2020

One of the main causes for engine overheating on this engine is a failed water pump. The water pump on this engine has an impeller design that will fail. Check main hose temps and after engine is up to temperature they should be same temperature. Always install a rebuilt replacement pump not a Ford new part. The Ford part has an impeller designed to erode over time. The rebuilt pump should have a standard cast or steel impeller.

The Flash · Aug 28, 2020

05Dave said:
One of the main causes for engine overheating on this engine is a failed water pump. The water pump on this engine has an impeller design that will fail. Check main hose temps and after engine is up to temperature they should be same temperature. Always install a rebuilt replacement pump not a Ford new part. The Ford part has an impeller designed to erode over time. The rebuilt pump should have a standard cast or steel impeller.

Good advice. Ms. Blue Bird had told me she had a replacement water pump installed about a year ago.

uncle barry · Aug 28, 2020

Blue Bird said:
I think my engine in my '02 is a Lincoln LS. Yours is a Jaguar??

They have a Jasper engine to fit this 2002 TBird? Do the make one special exactly like this?

No white smoke. I don't think it's using coolant because the reservour was full. Brake Masters used a "instant block test." I looked it up and I couldn't find what that is. I asked for the codes and he said they didn't hook it up for codes. I've got to get a second opinion. Thank you so much everyone!

Yup...that's the smartest thing to do at this time.

05Dave · Aug 28, 2020

Blown head gaskets will cause white smoke, but not always, coolant in the oil (oil shows as a gray or whitish color), which if antifreeze will destroy the engine in a short time if not stopped and flushed - but again not always leak into oil, but most often; compression loss on one or more adjacent cylinders, almost always; visible bubbles in the radiator when cap is removed from cold and or over pressure on radiator. You will always have one or more of these issues with a blown head gasket. If you have none of these symptoms, you do not have a blown head gasket. I have replaced head gaskets and made no other repairs, just cleaned up the head and deck surface, inspected closely for erosion or cracks. You do need to look carefully for why gasket failed. On one GM V6, I found head gasket improperly installed by factory assembly team - robot!!!

Frankie the Fink · Aug 28, 2020

Correct which is why my query to this fella was:
1) White Smoke
2) Combustion gases in the coolant, or,
3) Loss of coolant

Secondarily, blown head gaskets don't "heal themselves", so the follow on test kit for coolant gases and lack of overheating all lead to some other issue... And yes, I've changed a plethora of head gaskets. The other thought was a warped head - which is rare on modern cars, not that rare on older cars that have been severely overheated. More prevalent with aluminum heads of course.

05Dave · Aug 28, 2020

I did heal a minor head gasket issue (bubbles in rad and losing coolant) on a friends car in Medellin, Colombia a while back using some real heavy Stop Leak compound I poured in the rad. Parts were almost impossible to get there at the time, so I tried the stop leak and it worked for a couple of years. I remember it as a small 4 cyl. vehicle. But as you say they do not heal themselves. I have had good luck with my wife's 2005 at the local Ford dealer, the water pump was around $540.00 Canadian $ installed ($400.00 US), It showed up as rad fans running on high always and then a couple weeks later it started to over temp and pin holed a rad hose.

BillM · Aug 31, 2020

many good radiator shop use the test I see in Blue birds text. And here in Louisiana don't charge anywhere that much. Glad to hear it was not the problem you originally thought it was good luck.

teeetyme18 · Apr 6, 2024

I have a 2003 TBird with oil in the coolant but no coolant in the oil. I tried to eliminate any other causes for this by eliminating the oil cooler. I would have replaced it but there aren’t any new ones out there. I put an oil filter adapter from a 2002 with no oil cooler and replaced the hose also with a 2002. Oil is still getting into the coolant some how. Is a blown head gasket the likely culprit?

biddle · Apr 7, 2024

teeetyme18 said:
Is a blown head gasket the likely culprit?

First, read all of the posts in this thread.