food for thought

[spartacus]

food for thought (birds being produced per capita)

Is anyone keeping track of the number of birds being produced per capita now versus original production.

The country has grown a great deal since original production and it would nice to know how the numbers stack up.

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[tbird]

Census is only every 10 years isn't it?

 

[LON O'CONNELL]

I think Spartacus is refering to original production as in 55, 56, & 57 tbird.

 

[spartacus]

clarification on production

yes, I meant original production to per capita then versus current production to per capita now.

hypothetical illustration:

6 thousand birds to a population of 250 million people (one for every 41666 people) then versus
40 thousand birds to 380 million people now- illustration only

hope this makes better sense

 

[cappellin]

You know that there were 53,166 "old" two seater birds produced -- 16,155 for '55: 15, 631 for '56: 21,380 for '57. Assuming that our "retro" bird productions are in all years 20,000 or less, (80,000 to 100,000 total), then with the vast increase in people in the U.S. and world, it would only follow that our new birds will be rarer, per capita, than the old birds. Now for the guesses -- I have heard that there may be between 20,000 and 30,000 old birds still in "some kind" of condition, that is running or able to run with restoration, and that was even after those old guys knew that only three years would be produced. Therefore, in 40 years or so, our birds should definitely be more rare -- harder to find one that will run. That's my story and I am sticking to it!!

 

[spartacus]

vintage beauty

YES! My point exactly Cappellin.

Based on current events, it seems almost assured that the new Bird will soar even higher with age than it's predecessor.

Rejoice in enlightenement !!!!!!!!!!!

 

[cappellin]

Yes, Spartacus, but for something to be collectable it must be desired by a group of people. There have been several low production cars since the 55, 56, 57 Thunderbirds that haven't become "raving" collectables. I had a 57 Chevrolet Convertable -- collectable, of course, however the 58 Chevrolet, body style used for only one year, didn't pan out as collectable. The same can be said for the Fiero (I had one of those too) -- just 3 or 4 years for that nameplate, and it hasn't panned out as a real collector's item. Our "Retro" birds are expensive and beautiful and will be in short supply on the "used" market. Perhaps that, alone, will make them valuable collector cars but we will have to wait for a few decades to really find out. I bought a 57 T-Bird because it is beautiful and, by the way, also collectable. I treat it that way, with respect. I bought the 03 also because it is beautiful but I am driving it because it is fun, fun, fun and if it becomes a valuable collectors item some day, then my kids can collect the money -- I will have collected the fun.

 

[LON O'CONNELL]

Cappellin, one thing to take into consideration is that the 58 Chevy and the Fiero both were never Motor Trend Car of the Year Recipients ! COTY status does give this car a head start on collectible status versus other cars as the aforememntioned.

 

[captjim]

Lon:

I'd really and truly like to agree with you, but at one time I also owned another COTY. A '73 VEGA!!!!! The only water soluble vehicle known to man. It didn't rust, it just washed away. Finally ended it's life when the radiator fell off. Well, it really didn't fall off, it was held in place by the hoses which allowed the radiator to swing in and out of the fan, allowing them to mutually destroy each other! I really loved that car!

As far as "Kandi" my red '02 is concerned, I am not concerned about it's value in coming decades. She's priceless to me today!

Jim

 

[captjim]

Quickdraw

I guess they don't call you Quickdraw for nothing! You got me on that one! A Vega in any condition is a rarity. You're absolutely right, in good condition it would be valuable!

Jim

 

[LON O'CONNELL]

>>>>>>>>>>>Price of owning a Vega<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
1973 $2,100 (New)
1980 $29.95 (Good Condition)
1990 <$5,000> (Any condition)
2003 PRICELESS (Rare find in any condition)

 

[captjim]

Lon:

Just my luck! I never should've allowed it to get wet!!!

Jim

 

[Gator]

Don't know Cappellin's definition of a collectable exactly but the Thunderbirds 55, 56 & 57 have done quite well in the last few years if in collectable condition, not in driving condition. The world of "collectable" has become 95+ point cars for anything worth owning. Barrett Jackson auction in 1999 sold one for $159,600.00 it was owned by a well know singer but it still droped jaws. In 2002 several sold for over $50,000.00 and one brought $109,080.00 for a very nice 1956. This year there was a whole flock of Thunderbirds for sell and all looked exceptional. A nice 56 brought $64,800.00 one 57 brought $73,440.00 and another brought $83,700.00 and most sold for over $50,000.00. Not a bad investment if you ask me. I think the Thunderbird market is in great condition if you have the right car. These prices are exceptional in light of the economy in my humble opinion.

Views from the desk of Gator🙂

 

[InfernoRed]

Well,if you want an example of a COTY that is now rare and not valuable......the AMC Pacer more than fits that description.Might as well be the "Griswold Familly Truckster".

InfernoRed

 

[spartacus]

When I walk around my dads place, all I see is junk. All he sees is treasure.

Who's right? We both are. Value is an individual thing.

 

[cappellin]

The dealer's invoice on my '57 is $3011.72. The price out the door is more like $3500. A mid to upper #3 or a lower #2 driver can probably be had for $35 to $45,000. Only the very high #2 or #1 cars go for over $50,000 or someone just wants it and will pay anything. So if you had invested that $3500 in the market, you would be money ahead, however you wouldn't have had the joy of owning and driving it -- that is worth a lot. After all, no one buys a car (or should buy a car) for investment unless he can buy a trailer queen for the right price and is willing to hold it and keep it up for a decade or more. My opinion -- buy them to drive and enjoy and if they return some of their cost, then more power to the little things. Our "Retro" birds possibly will but can't count on it.

 

[PaulH]

Past Cars of the Year. It looks like the T-Bird with four picks may be on top. Also, Ford was selected in 1956 and 1964 with no one car called out. We know the Mustang was main reason in 1964, but 1956?

2003 Infinity (imports now) G35 Sport Sedan and Sport Coupe
2002 Ford Thunderbird
2001 Chrysler PT Cruiser
2000 Lincoln LS
1999 Chrysler 300M
1998 Chevrolet Corvette
1997 Chevrolet Malibu
1996 Dodge Caravan
1995 Chrysler Cirrus
1994 Ford Mustang
1993 Ford Probe GT
1992 Cadillac Seville Touring Sedan
1991 Chevrolet Caprice Classic LTZ
1990 Lincoln Town Car
1989 Ford Thunderbird SC
1988 Pontiac Grand Prix
1987 Ford Thunderbird
1986 Ford Taurus LX
1985 Volkswagen GTI , Toyota's MR2 Import Car of Year
1984 Chevrolet Corvette
1983 AMC / Renault Alliance
1982 Chevrolet Camaro Z28
1981 Chrysler K Cars, Dodge Aries / Plymouth Reliant
1980 Chevrolet Citation
1979 Buick Riveria S
1978 Chrysler, Dodge Omni / Plymouth Horizon
1977 Chevrolet Caprice
1976 Chrysler, Dodge Aspen / Plymouth Volare
1975 Chevrolet Monza 2+2
1974 Ford Mustang II
1973 Chevrolet Monte Carlo
1972 Citroen SM
1971 Chevrolet Vega
1970 Ford Torino
1969 Plymouth Road Runner
1968 Pontiac GTO
1967 Mercury Cougar
1966 Oldsmobile Toronado
1965 Pontiac Motor Division
1964 Ford Motor Company
1963 American Motors Rambler
1962 Buick Special
1961 Pontiac Tempest
1960 Chevrolet Corvair
1959 Pontiac Motor Division
1958 Ford Thunderbird
1957 Chrysler Corporation
1956 Ford Motor Company
1955 No award
1954 No award
1953 No award
1952 Cadillac Motor Division
1951 Chrysler Corporation
1950 No award
1949 Cadillac Motor Division

"IMPORT CAR OF THE YEAR"

2000 Ford Focus
1999 VW New Beetle
1998 Lexus GS Series
1997 BMW 5 Series
1996 Mercedes-Benz E-class
1995 Nissan Maxima
1994 Honda Accord
1993 Mazda RX-7
1992 Lexus SC 400
1991 Mitsubishi 3000GT VR-4
1990 Nissan 300ZX Turbo
1989 Mitsubishi Galant
1988 Honda Civic CRX Si
1987 Acura Legend Coupe
1986 Mazda RX-7
1985 Toyota MR2
1984 Honda Civic CRX
1983 Mazda 626
1982 Toyota Celica Supra
1981 Mercedes-Benz 300SD
1980 Honda Civic
1979 Datsun 280ZX
1978 Toyota Celica
1977 Mercedes-Benz 280E
1976 Toyota Celica Liftback

Well this is more info than I need.

Thanks, Paul

 

[InfernoRed]

1956???? Is that not the year that the Ford Victoria was reintroduced as the Crown Victoria?????With all the chrome trim and the first 50 or so having a true glass roof...tinted green.Perhaps it won Ford the title.

InfernoRed

 

[ronbon]

Some additional information on Crown Vics.
!955 was the first Crown Vic with the stainless crown
molding, it was continued in 1956 as a top of the line
Fairlane with a similar crown stainless band over the top
center of the car.
The glass tops were first introduced in 1954 on the
2-door hardtop victoria model and in a greenish tinted
glass 1/2 panel on the front top roof. It too was available
in the 1955 and 1956 victoria hardtops. Everyone I have
ever seen has been on a Crown Victoria in 55 or 56, the
54 was a 2-door hardtop model and I think 1953 or 52
was the first year for 2-door pillarless hardtops.
RonBon🙂

 

[57 bluebird]

'51 was the first Victoria 2 Door (no piller) hardtop. I had one