2004 codes P2195 and P2197

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R

rcwitt66

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Joined
Apr 16, 2022
Thunderbird Year
2004
I have a 2004 Thunderbird. It has been driving me up the wall. I was getting P0302 and P0316 codes, so I bought and installed 8 new plugs and 8 new COPs.

I can't remember the codes, but it had some others (I think P0172 and P0174), So I changed all of the O2 sensors as well.

Test drove it, and got a CEL. Got home and hooked up the scanner. P0302 and P0316 again. So, I looked online and found that apparently any issue this car has causes these codes (LOL). I changed the MAF sensor, reset the codes and tried again.

Additionally, At this point, I disconnected the battery for an hour to completely reset the ECM so it would have to re-learn all of the new parts.

This time, lo and behold, it didn't throw a P0302 or a pP0316. Instead, it threw codes P2195 and P2197 up.

I am runnng out of options. There isn't a lot of information I can find about this particular car. I have thrown just about enough money and time into this car.

The only things I can think of at this point are either a vacuum leak (I don't have a smoke tester) or a fuel pressure issue (I don't have a gauge).

Any ideas from the experts? Attached are the OBDII reader.

Here it is. This was while idling in my driveway.

As a follow up, since I have been constantly working on this beast, I decided to look for vaccuum leaks. There is a small hose that runs from the intake to the passenger side valve cover. When I was listening for telltale hissing, I heard it from the area of this hose (well, it's a corrugated platic line). I went to disconnect the hose and it broke into 4 pieces. I believe I may have found the vaccuum leak. Ordered a replacement that will be here in 4 days. Hopefully, that will fix it.
20220416_215943.jpg20220416_220005.jpg20220416_215956.jpg20220416_215924.jpg20220416_215933.jpg20220416_220014.jpg
 
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biddle said:
Rule out the throttle position sensor and throttle body. The TPS is a common problem https://forums.fordthunderbirdforum...04-2005-ford-thunderbird-throttle-body.10085/

Also, how long have you had the car? It's possible the car has/had more than one problem which is why one fix isn't resolving it.

On your future post you can omit the make and model of your car to shorten your title since we are an an all Ford Thunderbird site.

I inserted your images into your post using this method:
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I have to wait until the replacement vac line gets here before I do any more testing. It runs very poorly with the line missing pieces. I did check the injectors, using the stethoscope and Ohm methods and they all appear to be working. - that's not to say they aren't dirty or clogged. I added injector cleaner to the fuel tank yesterday while test driving it.

I bought the car used around 8 years ago. Haven't had many problems with it other than the occasional COP change.
I am having issues with codes P2195 and P2197. All of the others have been resolved. I was just referencing them in the sequential order that brought me to the current issues.

Thanks for resizing/embedding the photos.
 
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Should you get a live view of O2 activity on your scanner, it may indicate why the lean and range codes reoccur? Nice to have a baseline of normal activity but YouTube may show examples of "twitchy" sensors bouncing around? Seems you know about vac leaks creating this very issue? I've seen smoke devices under $50 and some claim they've rented them. I'd find an Ebay cheapy as definitely needed it to move forward. A dealer scan may reveal a secret as well?
 
I’ve read the various threads on these codes (O2 sensor, lean banks 1 and 2) so I know what they mean. No other relevant codes.

I took the bird to a self car wash yesterday and I sprayed a fair bit on the front end to remove some dirt and stains, so water probably got into the engine compartment.

The car started and ran fine afterward, until I drove a couple of miles to go on the highway to air off any water. I accelerated hard from a standing start and then the car bogged down, came close to stalling, etc.

I was able to nurse the car home, pulled the codes, reset them and after a couple of hours started it up again. P2195 and P2197 came back and again the car idled rough.

This morning, I cleared the codes again and started it up. It ran rough but after pressing the gas the idle smoothed out. So far no more codes.

I don’t hear any vacuum noises.

Any thoughts here? Short term obviously no spray car wash but anything I should be aware of or keep in mind?
 
Mark James said:
Thanks - so that could be the cause?
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Well this happened after you washed it correct ? It still sounds like the air flow sensor is dirty or air filter is causing your problem

Mrdan said:
Well this happened after you washed it correct ? It still sounds like the air flow sensor is dirty or air filter is causing your problem
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A piece of fuzz on the air flow sensor will cause major problems and can take out your converters if you keep running the engine
 
Mrdan said:
Well this happened after you washed it correct ? It still sounds like the air flow sensor is dirty or air filter is causing your problem
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Air filter is new and I checked it again this morning. I haven’t done anything with the MAF sensor so i should probably clean it.

I agree that the likely cause is the car wash as it hasn’t thrown any codes previously.

Mrdan said:
A piece of fuzz on the air flow sensor will cause major problems and can take out your converters if you keep running the engine
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I’ll get some MAF cleaner and do that as a precaution. Won’t be driving the car again until done.
 
Mark James said:
Air filter is new and I checked it again this morning. I haven’t done anything with the MAF sensor so i should probably clean it.

I agree that the likely cause is the car wash as it hasn’t thrown any codes previously.
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I use the CRC MAF cleaner. It tries much faster than throttle body cleaner!


mass-air-flow-cleaner.jpg

Mark James said:
Thanks - my local Autozone has it in stock and will get it today. Anything tricky about removing and cleaning?
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Walmart also has a two-pack with the Throttle Body & MAF Cleaner. Just be careful, all MAF are delicate. These bottles are smaller than the single size, but plenty to clean the throttle body and MAF on two cars.

https://goto.walmart.com/c/195274/5...ody-Single-Use-Cleaner-Twin-Pack-Kit/36755294
 
biddle said:
I use the CRC MAF cleaner. It tries much faster than throttle body cleaner!


View attachment 24787


Walmart also has a two-pack with the Throttle Body & MAF Cleaner. Just be careful, all MAF are delicate. These bottles are smaller than the single size, but plenty to clean the throttle body and MAF on two cars.

https://goto.walmart.com/c/195274/5...ody-Single-Use-Cleaner-Twin-Pack-Kit/36755294
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I wasn’t able to get the 2 pack locally but got some MAF Cleaner and cleaned it as a precaution. After everything dried out the car starts and idles well again.

Lesson learned about car washes and high pressure spray wands, low pressure and a bucket from now on.
 
I bought a scanner and it showed a P2197 code--O2 sensor signal Biased/Stuck Lean. (Bank 2 Sensor 1). So I cleared the code. Guess that means I need to change the O2 sensor. Is it Ok to drive in the meantime? Went to another system screen and it said Fuel System 1 CL Load 20.0 and ECT 192. This scanner does a battery check/condition which is nice Also I mentioned when I first start the car it makes a high pitch whining noise which I can't figure out. After the car warms for a minute or two and the idles settles down the noise is still there but less noticeable. Any thoughts.
 
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Chip said:
I bought a scanner and it showed a P2197 code--O2 sensor signal Biased/Stuck Lean. (Bank 2 Sensor 1). So I cleared the code. Guess that means I need to change the O2 sensor. Is it Ok to drive in the meantime? Went to another system screen and it said Fuel System 1 CL Load 20.0 and ECT 192. This scanner does a battery check/condition which is nice Also I mentioned when I first start the car it makes a high pitch whining noise which I can't figure out. After the car warms for a minute or two and the idles settles down the noise is still there but less noticeable. Any thoughts.
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I had the same issue a few months ago and did change one of the O2 sensors and eliminated the issue. It is ok to drive it.
 
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Chip said:
I bought a scanner and it showed a P2197 code--O2 sensor signal Biased/Stuck Lean. (Bank 2 Sensor 1). So I cleared the code. Guess that means I need to change the O2 sensor. Is it Ok to drive in the meantime? Went to another system screen and it said Fuel System 1 CL Load 20.0 and ECT 192. This scanner does a battery check/condition which is nice Also I mentioned when I first start the car it makes a high pitch whining noise which I can't figure out. After the car warms for a minute or two and the idles settles down the noise is still there but less noticeable. Any thoughts.
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You might need an O2 sensor, but instead of just installing an O2 sensor with the hope that it fixes your problem, why not do a little testing first.

doug7740
1955 Thunderbird Blue

P2197.jpg
 
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Check first for any vaccum leaks, coming from the intake manifold or intake gaskets also vacuum hoses that would create a lean condition.
That might be the high pitch whining noise you hear.
 
doug7740 said:
You might need an O2 sensor, but instead of just installing an O2 sensor with the hope that it fixes your problem, why not do a little testing first.

doug7740
1955 Thunderbird Blue

View attachment 27105
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What page of the FSM did you find this table? I've been looking thru mine and can't seem to find it anywhere. I have the P2197 'pending' code. no CEL yet. It drives smooth, except a couple of times when starting from a stop light its a little slow, almost under powered. Any suggestions are welcome. I've cleaned the MAF and can't figure out what could be happening, or where these sensors are actually located.
 
Since I work on multiple year, makes and models of vehicles, I don’t use a Ford Service Manual, I use AllData.

DTC P2197 indicates a lack of switching of the left front oxygen sensor. Cleaning the mass air flow sensor will not correct condition. The lack of switching indicates a lean condition caused by a leak in the air induction system after the mass air flow sensor.

Since there are many things that can cause this lean condition, I would refer to Technical Service Bulletin 04-17-4. TSB 04-17-4 is intended to aid in diagnosing DTC's P0171, P0174, P1130, P1131, P1150, P1151, P2195, or P2197 (system lean or lack of oxygen sensor switching) when a vacuum leak is present.

doug7740
1955 Thunderbird Blue

HO2S #21.jpg
 
ah. thanks. I have had a pesky small eval leak for a while (I can't recall the exact code, but very common when searching here), but never this. Like I said, my OBDII reader says "pending P2197". It hasn't triggered the CEL yet.
 
Well, I solved my pending P2197 issue. When I was replacing the valve cover gasket to fix an oil leak, I noticed the evap hose between the intake and the passenger valve cover was super loose. I put a couple of clamps on it. Turns out this tube was too soft so the suction was creating an issue, restricting the airflow. I replaced that 8" of tube with one more rigid, drove it around a bit and it cleared the code. Drove like a champ.

Now if i can just get the evap leak code to clear, I'll be in business.
 
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