2002 Stale Gasoline removal

T
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Joined
Sep 19, 2021
Thunderbird Year
2002
Moderator note- work to a fuel system should be performed by a certified mechanic. Use these tips at your own risk!

I have really been wracking my brain about how to get stale gasoline out of my 2002 Thunderbird. I have read about recommendations to remove the tank. This would be challenging with the exhaust under it. I have also read about removing the access cover to the fuel pump and sender unit. That too is a challenge with the tight space where it is located. Siphoning gas out of the filler neck doesn’t work due to the anti-siphon valve. I also tried to disconnect the fuel filter and connect a hose to the fuel line that I would then use to divert pumped gas into a 5 gallon can. That didn’t work either. With this setup, my plan was to trick the fuel pump inside the tank to come on and merely pump the fuel out of the tank through the fuel lines and into a 5 gallon can. That didn’t work because I couldn’t get the pump to work for more than about 2 seconds. I read that the power to the fuel pump can be interrupted if the PCM detects that the engine was not running.

Finally, a solution. The 2002 Thunderbird has a Schrader valve on the driver side fuel rail on the engine to be able to test fuel pressure just before the fuel injectors. You have to remove the plastic appearance cover on top of the engine to find the Schrader valve. It looks just like the valve on a bicycle inner tube. I bought a fuel pressure test kit and hooked it up. If you buy one or borrow one from a friend or a parts store, make sure it has a pressure relief valve and fuel drain line. That drain line is less than a 1/4 inch, but it is enough to flow gas. I put the drain line into a 5 gallon can then started up the engine and let it idle. When you press the pressure relief valve with your thumb, fuel will drain into the can. It is hard to hold your thumb on that button for a long period of time, so I used a C-clamp to hold the button. Then it was just a matter of letting the engine idle and watching the 5 gallon can fill up. It will take a while if you have a full tank of gas. The can will fill at a rate of around 5 gallons per 30 minutes of idling. I did this then shut the vehicle off to let everything cool down. I then started up the engine with an empty 5 gallon can to do the same procedure for the next 30 minutes. By then, my tank was empty.

I hope this is helpful for anyone that has this dilemma.
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Please include the model year in your subject on future posts, as prompted. I added this for you.
 
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Moderator note- work to a fuel system should be performed by a certified mechanic. Use these tips at your own risk!

I have really been wracking my brain about how to get stale gasoline out of my 2002 Thunderbird. I have read about recommendations to remove the tank. This would be challenging with the exhaust under it. I have also read about removing the access cover to the fuel pump and sender unit. That too is a challenge with the tight space where it is located. Siphoning gas out of the filler neck doesn’t work due to the anti-siphon valve. I also tried to disconnect the fuel filter and connect a hose to the fuel line that I would then use to divert pumped gas into a 5 gallon can. That didn’t work either. With this setup, my plan was to trick the fuel pump inside the tank to come on and merely pump the fuel out of the tank through the fuel lines and into a 5 gallon can. That didn’t work because I couldn’t get the pump to work for more than about 2 seconds. I read that the power to the fuel pump can be interrupted if the PCM detects that the engine was not running.

Finally, a solution. The 2002 Thunderbird has a Schrader valve on the driver side fuel rail on the engine to be able to test fuel pressure just before the fuel injectors. You have to remove the plastic appearance cover on top of the engine to find the Schrader valve. It looks just like the valve on a bicycle inner tube. I bought a fuel pressure test kit and hooked it up. If you buy one or borrow one from a friend or a parts store, make sure it has a pressure relief valve and fuel drain line. That drain line is less than a 1/4 inch, but it is enough to flow gas. I put the drain line into a 5 gallon can then started up the engine and let it idle. When you press the pressure relief valve with your thumb, fuel will drain into the can. It is hard to hold your thumb on that button for a long period of time, so I used a C-clamp to hold the button. Then it was just a matter of letting the engine idle and watching the 5 gallon can fill up. It will take a while if you have a full tank of gas. The can will fill at a rate of around 5 gallons per 30 minutes of idling. I did this then shut the vehicle off to let everything cool down. I then started up the engine with an empty 5 gallon can to do the same procedure for the next 30 minutes. By then, my tank was empty.

I hope this is helpful for anyone that has this dilemma.
View attachment 19110View attachment 19111



During periods of low use i had been keeping tank full on 02. when fuel pump failed the garage guys said the fuel was NASTY /SMELLY in tank even with additive. I now keep 1/4 tank and put in a few gallons of fresh fuel more often. I don't drive a lot of miles.
 
During periods of low use i had been keeping tank full on 02. when fuel pump failed the garage guys said the fuel was NASTY /SMELLY in tank even with additive. I now keep 1/4 tank and put in a few gallons of fresh fuel more often. I don't drive a lot of miles.
That is my plan going forward. Thanks
 
Moderator note- work to a fuel system should be performed by a certified mechanic. Use these tips at your own risk!

I have really been wracking my brain about how to get stale gasoline out of my 2002 Thunderbird. I have read about recommendations to remove the tank. This would be challenging with the exhaust under it. I have also read about removing the access cover to the fuel pump and sender unit. That too is a challenge with the tight space where it is located. Siphoning gas out of the filler neck doesn’t work due to the anti-siphon valve. I also tried to disconnect the fuel filter and connect a hose to the fuel line that I would then use to divert pumped gas into a 5 gallon can. That didn’t work either. With this setup, my plan was to trick the fuel pump inside the tank to come on and merely pump the fuel out of the tank through the fuel lines and into a 5 gallon can. That didn’t work because I couldn’t get the pump to work for more than about 2 seconds. I read that the power to the fuel pump can be interrupted if the PCM detects that the engine was not running.

Finally, a solution. The 2002 Thunderbird has a Schrader valve on the driver side fuel rail on the engine to be able to test fuel pressure just before the fuel injectors. You have to remove the plastic appearance cover on top of the engine to find the Schrader valve. It looks just like the valve on a bicycle inner tube. I bought a fuel pressure test kit and hooked it up. If you buy one or borrow one from a friend or a parts store, make sure it has a pressure relief valve and fuel drain line. That drain line is less than a 1/4 inch, but it is enough to flow gas. I put the drain line into a 5 gallon can then started up the engine and let it idle. When you press the pressure relief valve with your thumb, fuel will drain into the can. It is hard to hold your thumb on that button for a long period of time, so I used a C-clamp to hold the button. Then it was just a matter of letting the engine idle and watching the 5 gallon can fill up. It will take a while if you have a full tank of gas. The can will fill at a rate of around 5 gallons per 30 minutes of idling. I did this then shut the vehicle off to let everything cool down. I then started up the engine with an empty 5 gallon can to do the same procedure for the next 30 minutes. By then, my tank was empty.

I hope this is helpful for anyone that has this dilemma.
View attachment 19110View attachment 19111

I would still like to know how you get the engine to run for 30 minutes with the fuel line disconnected???
 
How do you get the engine to run it fuel line is disconnected???
This is one of the ideas that did not work. The engine obviously would not run, but if the 12V power is on and the key is in run mode, the fuel pump will come on, but only for a few seconds. After a few seconds, the PCM recognizes the engine is not running and cuts power to the fuel pump. I am sure this is a safety feature in case the fuel system integrity is compromised. With the pump only running for a few seconds, it doesn't yield much fuel which means you have to cycle the key to off and then back to run a zillion times. The solution that works has the fuel system fully assembled and the engine idling. The fuel pressure tester is attached to the high pressure fuel rail as if it is performing a pressure test (which it is). The fuel pressure tester is equipped with a pressure relief button and a drain hose which is what you then can use to bleed off the fuel to a gas can.
 
How stale is stale ? I've resurrected many vintage cars with old gas in the tank and the chief issue was rust sediment, which prob isn't a factor in these plastic tank cars. I might be tempted to dope the "stale" gas with some octane booster or the like and run it through the car. As the fuel level doprs add fresh gas to the tank to freshen what's left and go from there.. Follow that up with several bottles of Techron./


MODERATOR NOTE:


Alternatively, as a test, I managed to snake over 3 feet of my mechanical pump (shown in this video) hose down into the T-bird gas tank this morning ( I would NOT use an electric pump). the antis-syphon valve did not prevent this.

That should let you suck out the fuel in the PS of the saddle tank at least; then you could refill that side with fresh fuel and rock the car good and hard for a while and wait an hour or so and then try to run the old fuel out.

 
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How stale is stale ? I've resurrected many vintage cars with old gas in the tank and the chief issue was rust sediment, which prob isn't a factor in these plastic tank cars. I might be tempted to dope the "stale" gas with some octane booster or the like and run it through the car. As the fuel level doprs add fresh gas to the tank to freshen what's left and go from there.. Follow that up with several bottles of Techron./

Alternatively, as a test, I managed to snake over 3 feet of my mechanical pump (shown in this video) hose down into the T-bird gas tank this morning ( I would NOT use an electric pump). the antis-syphon valve did not prevent this.

That should let you suck out the fuel in the PS of the saddle tank at least; then you could refill that side with fresh fuel and rock the car good and hard for a while and wait an hour or so and then try to run the old fuel out.

Well for me, stale is premium fuel with 10% alcohol that has sat in the tank for 3 years. This Thunderbird only has 1800 miles on it. It is also on its’ 3rd fuel pump due to the fuel going bad and destroying the pump. We inherited this car from relatives and I wanted to get the alcohol based fuel out and only use alcohol-free gasoline. I doped the fuel with additives 2 years ago. I may be wrong, but those additives are likely the only reason I was able to start and idle the engine.
 
I ordered a Diesel oil pump from Amazon for less than $20. They have 12V and 120V models. I put a filter between the tank and pump.

To get down the filler neck effectively. I taped a Bluetooth boro-scope (also on Amazon for less than $30) to the tubing so I could see the inside of the tank. Works great. It helps to cut the tube diagonally at the end so it doesn't vacuum itself to the side of the tank.

Have a fire extinguisher handy!

Cheers,
~Kané
 
I would like to know where shrader valve is located for sure, pic would help. Thank You in advance.
 
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