2002 buying 15k mile Teal Blue deluxe, what is a fair price?

[PeepPeep!]

Negotiating with the seller from 19k asking price, here is some context:

Pros:

• Immaculate condition, no leather cracking or discoloration on interior, looks brand new inside and outside.
• No dash warning lights on, healthy sounding enging revving without any clunks, sputters or sounding strained.
• Powertop works perfectly, free of rips or tears.
• 15k miles, always garaged away from elements and UV sun exposure.

Cons:

• Last service records was in 2013, has only been driven 1000 miles since 2013.
• Tires are original tires from 2001, meaning all tires + spare would need to be replaced.
• Over 10 years since last service, rubber parts needed replaced in upper A-arms and rear suspension.
• Fluids have been sitting around in garage, rarely driven for 10 years.

With these facts in mind, what do you think would be a fair asking price to start negotiations at? Immediately after purchase, I would need to replace the tires to drive it home as I am not driving on 20+ year old tires no matter how good the treads are so that already knocks the price down 1k in my opinion. Should I offset the cost as well for any other mantinence I would need done?

Thoughts and opinions appreciated! Thanks!

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[Debs tbird]

Its been barley been driven for over 10 years. Could be so many issues. Just my opinion but I think 10 -12K. I think miles are probably irrelevant on a car that's hasn't been serviced for over 10 years. I have an 04 that I'll be selling. Vintage mint green. Also garage kept.

 

[biddle]

one just sold for 15k with 8,000 miles. I would not be surprised if the fuel pump needs replaced in the near future. These cars do not do well sitting. 19k is way too high.

The 2002 has a Hydraulic Fan and the solenoids can be problematic as well.

 

[tommyc]

That's a very long time without any service. I would be more confident in a 30K mile car with records of periodic maintenance.

Aside from the comments above, I would hazard the coils may have deteriorated as well. It may sound fine on a short test drive, but when it heats up you may see problems.

Easy ask to pop the driver side coil cover off and have a look underneath. Take a 7mm gearwrench along with you because driver side is a pain without one. Look for signs of water/rust.

 

[Randy M]

Take the car out for a drive for at least 30 miles, both in town starting/stopping a lot and out on the open highway. Check transmission shifts for any 'clunking'. A Ford dealer can adjust the trans a little to 'dial' this out. I have noticed that if I religiously drive mine for 10-12 mile once a week that this small amount of this 'clunking' I was experiencing has gone away. Sitting for long periods on these newer cars is not good for them.

When out on this 30-mile drive with the top up and windows closed do you get any burning oil odors inside the car which would indicate valve cover gaskets might need replacing. If the engine starts missing at any time (a noticeable 'clunking') COP's may need to be replaced.

About 8 to 10 years ago (before non-ethanol gas became available) my 2002 Tbird sometimes sat in the garage for weeks at a time before getting driven. I only drive it in good weather. I had one episode where the engine started missing badly which I thought was a COP. I switched to non-ethanol gas and never had that problem again. Find out what type fuel the seller is keeping in his tank. Ethanol fuel absorbs moisture and if that is 'eaten' by the engine it will run rough.

Check that all dash lights and the tunnel shift light come on when you turn the headlights on. If not, either the bulbs are burned out which is a big hassle to pull out the dash instrument unit and individually replace all bulbs - OR - there is a circuit board that controls these lights (plus other things) that needs replacing.

Sitting this long, especially if the engine has not at least been started regularly, if there has been moisture in the exhaust system there may also be rust issues in the exhaust pipes. When started do you see any moisture being blown out of the exhaust?

A pristine '02 in great condition (mechanically too) could sell for up to $22K. You would have to start subtracting the cost to fix all the items this car needs from this price. I recently had my valve cover gaskets and the circuit board for the dash/trans tunnel lights replaced by my Ford dealer (plus oil and some other small things done) for a bit over $5K. With NO service on the car you are looking at since 2013 you would also need to do transmission/brake fluid/power steering fluid flushes too, and this all adds up quickly. And new tires.

You would be safer at $12-$13K max. You did not say if this has the hardtop.

Good luck -- these are fun cars to own and drive,

Randy

 

[WesTxStoner425]

Make sure you get the tonneau cover (parade boot), which can cost $1500-2000 to replace. The hardtop has value, but I've never put mine on since I took it off after purchase in 2019. The 2002s are the one model I would skip because of hydraulic fans and less HP. 2003-2005 are the better choice. Are you buying as an investment or to enjoy? Many people think the first year of a new model is more highly collectible, but because of the changes the following year, I'd pass on the 2002 unless I got a killer deal. Then I'd flip it...

 

[PeepPeep!]

Make sure you get the tonneau cover (parade boot), which can cost $1500-2000 to replace. The hardtop has value, but I've never put mine on since I took it off after purchase in 2019. The 2002s are the one model I would skip because of hydraulic fans and less HP. 2003-2005 are the better choice. Are you buying as an investment or to enjoy? Many people think the first year of a new model is more highly collectible, but because of the changes the following year, I'd pass on the 2002 unless I got a killer deal. Then I'd flip it...

The Thunderbird Blue Teal with full teal accents is why I want a 2002. The only other color I'd love is a Mint Green '04 but those are extremely rare since just over 600 or so were produced since it wasn't a popular color. Teal thunderbirds are much more common, and I really do love the full teal interior that came for those who purchased the full color package on the car. The hydraulic fan may be an issue in the future, which I am aware as opposed to the electric fans of later years, but I am unconcerned with horsepower as I am not a speed demon -- I am more of a defensive driver, and am happy cruising at the flow of traffic!

It does have the boot cover, and a '04 platinum silver (purchased by owner on Ebay) from the Platinum color hard top as he felt the sparkly platinum was a better fit for the chrome trim than standard pearl white hard top. I would agree, as the platinum sparkle paint with the Thunderbird Blue is a gorgeous color combination and very retro but glittery and flashy from the sparkle paint than the more toned down white!

Regardless, the car is in immaculate condition as it was barely driven since 2002. No leather cracking or discoloration on the teal seats, the soft top motor is in great condition and the engine sounds healthy.

 

[PeepPeep!]

Update: Car broke on test drive, ran just fine for the full 45min test drive. I found out after my pre-purchase inspection, that the power steering fluid had a major leak in it which locked up the steering wheel pretty bad, and that the valve cover gaskets were leaking and shorted out some of the coils. Car barely made it back up two blocks to the dealership after topping up the power steering.

Needless to say, pre-purchase inspection saved my wallet and possibly even my life! If my power steering gave out and locked up while on the freeway, that could've turned out ugly. I do love the 02' thunderbird though with all the interior teal accents so I'll keep looking for one with more up-to-date service records!

 

[biddle]

I'll keep looking for one with more up-to-date service records!

This is nice to have, but at the end of the day, even on a low mileage car with records, it is still a car that is over two decades old. Definitely needs put on a rack an inspected by someone that is a good mechanic. Someone who can recognize bodywork is good too. Sadly people rely on Carfax even though it's been exposed on national TV. Again it's a tool, but not a full proof one.

The asking price on that car was also asinine.

 

[PeepPeep!]

This is nice to have, but at the end of the day, even on a low mileage car with records, it is still a car that is over two decades old. Definitely needs put on a rack an inspected by someone that is a good mechanic. Someone who can recognize bodywork is good too. Sadly people rely on Carfax even though it's been exposed on national TV. Again it's a tool, but not a full proof one.

The asking price on that car was also asinine.

Thanks, Biddle! Any other advice you have while looking for a quality T-Bird is greatly appreciated as well! 😊

 

[Frankie the Fink]

I wish others were as smart as this person buying an older car; I've seen FAR too many bad purchases on classic cars where the owner got "the fever" and did NOT do a PPI. This person bought a 1967 Corvette at a popular auction "as-is, where-is" , I met him and his wife at a car show and he asked me what I thought. The metal "birdcage" surrounding the cockpit was rusting out (easily spotted if you know what to look for) - the car was a rust bucket. This happens when windshield leaks are not taken care of. The car was worth maybe 1/2 of what he paid, even if anybody would buy it.

Not wanting to make the guy look like a jerk in front of his wife I just said, "you should have that looked at".

 

[PeepPeep!]

I wish others were as smart as this person buying an older car; I've seen FAR too many bad purchases on classic cars where the owner got "the fever" and did NOT do a PPI. This person bought a 1967 Corvette at a popular auction "as-is, where-is" , I met him and his wife at a car show and he asked me what I thought. The metal "birdcage" surrounding the cockpit was rusting out (easily spotted if you know what to look for) - the car was a rust bucket. This happens when windshield leaks are not taken care of. The car was worth maybe 1/2 of what he paid, even if anybody would buy it.

Not wanting to make the guy look like a jerk in front of his wife I just said, "you should have that looked at".
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Thanks Frankie! I am excited to be a part of the T-bird community hopefully soon! I found another 02' full blue accents for 16k in California which I am having the owner get a pre-purchase inspection for me prior to flying down for it -- and simply venmoing her after it is done as I want to make sure the car is able to make the trip back to my home state safe and sound. Looking forward to becoming a regular member of this community, and an eager younger 20 something excited to take care of their first T-bird and keep the retro spirit alive! 😊

 

[WesTxStoner425]

@PeepPeep! How did the purchase go?

 

[PeepPeep!]

@PeepPeep! How did the purchase go?

Thanks for checking in!! I ended up getting the 2002 teal/white hard top combo down in California that had 24k miles on it. The previous owner was kind enough to get all prior repairs needed for me before I made my long 13 hour journey home. The car drove perfectly fine the entire way home, and had no issues which I am so thankful for! I did notice that on the long drive, the rubber boots in the front a-arms had split which is a minor fix, Biddle helped me find and order the parts so those will be installed soon!

I need advice on how to clean under the hood, as the dusty roads of California has lead to a lot of dust and dirt under the hood to accumulate -- and I read online for Retrobirds you don't want to lightly hose down beneath the hood since there are a lot of electral wiring that could get messed up. Thinking of using some Simple Green automotive degreaser, a spray bottle of water and an agitator brush to wipe off whatever I can without getting too 'in the weeds' with the wires and connector cables as to not douse anything in water!

Other than that, she is scheduled on Nov 1st to get her Apple Carplay radio installed and a professional detail at the auto-spa to get a fresh wash, dry and wax -- plus a nicely deep-cleaned interior!

 

[T-BirdTom]

Hi PeepPeep,
Here's the price history since 2018 from Bring-A-Trailer on TBirds from 2002 thru 2005:

Black Dots are Sales, Circles are unsuccessful highest bids. ( https://bringatrailer.com/ford/thunderbird-2002-2005/ ) Note that after 2022 prices have moderated a bit.

I've been going through my 2005 and doing things I would have done over the previous 20 years to keep it fresh and happy. It's mileage was 34,400 when I got it at the start of October. It had been driven less and less as time went along. So, I'm making sure fluids, hoses, gaskets, etc are good. Tires are brand new, so tomorrow AM it goes in for an alignment check. It drives fine, but I didn't get to see the old tires. New gold line "Vogue" tires look great and I want them to last a while.

I ordered new trunk lid gas shocks as the old ones are a bit weak. The hood gas shocks seem better. They'll be here on Wednesday. I've installed new brake pads all around. Akebono brand ceramic pads. The OE pads were about 50% worn, but they created tons of black dust under braking. So, these new ones should create less crud to clean.

I've gone over all rubber door and window gaskets with silicone spray as well as rubber at the trunk and hood. That helps to preserve those pieces.

I changed out the old brake fluid from OE DOT 3 to DOT 5 Silicone, again as a preventative measure. Old fluid is hydroscopic which leads to rusting of the brake lines and calipers. The old stuff looked like yesterday's coffee! New stuff is in and the car is happy.

Best wishes to you on your new purchase,
Tom Veale