1988 A/C Refilling after system evacuation

[Fizz88]

Recently on my 88 turbo coupe, the A/C accumulator was replaced. Had a shop evac all the old stuff in the system and they removed it a bit ago. Got the part after and I put it on today, used one of those things you get at auto part stores to refill it, believe the name is "A/C Pro". Unfortunately I did not research thoroughly and I missed steps.. apparently Ester oil should of been added before hand, the recharge bottle I got has PAG oil in it. Does the system need to be evacuated again? It was already evacuated when the shop removed the accumulator.

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[mcm51]

Are we dealing with r12 or 134a, would not make a difference, just wondering....Was your a/c working fine before the accumulator was changed ? I ask because if all your other parts in the system was good, I'd vac pump it, (that not only gets out moisture and other crap but will also give you an ideal on what kind of leaks the system has by how long it can hold that vac.), now ya kinda lost me on the end, If the system was working fine before the accu. change, suck the system out and then add your freon up to around 40# low side, I've rebuilt mine on my '95 a couple times, I stay clear of any added sealants(glue) in my freon, I don't have any problems with dye in my freon, that's the way I've always done my system.....IF your system is in decent working condition, try to stay clear of just adding oil by itself................

 

[Fizz88]

Are we dealing with r12 or 134a, would not make a difference, just wondering....Was your a/c working fine before the accumulator was changed ? I ask because if all your other parts in the system was good, I'd vac pump it, (that not only gets out moisture and other crap but will also give you an ideal on what kind of leaks the system has by how long it can hold that vac.), now ya kinda lost me on the end, If the system was working fine before the accu. change, suck the system out and then add your freon up to around 40# low side, I've rebuilt mine on my '95 a couple times, I stay clear of any added sealants(glue) in my freon, I don't have any problems with dye in my freon, that's the way I've always done my system.....IF your system is in decent working condition, try to stay clear of just adding oil by itself................

It wasn't working properly before hand, hence replacing the accumulator. Also dealing with r12 to r134 since r12 isn't sold anymore. The ac pro has sealants in there including a small amount of PAG oil. Also heard the orifice tube will need replacing, is this true? I didn't find any metal debris so I didn't think it would. Though I Could be wrong.

 

[Tom Alpers]

It wasn't working properly before hand, hence replacing the accumulator. Also dealing with r12 to r134 since r12 isn't sold anymore. The ac pro has sealants in there including a small amount of PAG oil. Also heard the orifice tube will need replacing, is this true? I didn't find any metal debris so I didn't think it would. Though I Could be wrong.

If it had R12 it had mineral oil in it. If you put 134a in it you will need to put some amount of PAG oil in. I don't think the mineral oil is compatible with r12 in the sense that they don't mix and consequently the oil doesn't get carried around the system to lube the compressor. Back when 134a was new and there were a lot of conversion kits on the market they included a small can of PAG oil to add to the system. Some said it was "good enough" with that small amount of PAG oil, other said it was a ticking time bomb because it wasn't enough oil to do what was needed. You have a new accumulator so there is room in it for at least a couple oz of additional oil. Its not clear from what you have posted as to whether your system had a vacuum pulled on it before you started charging it with the "AC Pro" stuff. If it didn't have a vacuum then there is likely to be air in it and you don't want that. As to orifice tube, supposedly the orifice tube for R12 is different than the one for 134a and that would be why it would be changed. I don't know if it really makes all that much difference, people said a lot of stuff "back then" about these conversions and a lot of people did nothing but put in 134a and it worked. It's possible some of the end of the era R12 systems had an oil that was compatible with 134a but I don't know. You can google most of this stuff if you want to be safe.

 

[Fizz88]

Are we dealing with r12 or 134a, would not make a difference, just wondering....Was your a/c working fine before the accumulator was changed ? I ask because if all your other parts in the system was good, I'd vac pump it, (that not only gets out moisture and other crap but will also give you an ideal on what kind of leaks the system has by how long it can hold that vac.), now ya kinda lost me on the end, If the system was working fine before the accu. change, suck the system out and then add your freon up to around 40# low side, I've rebuilt mine on my '95 a couple times, I stay clear of any added sealants(glue) in my freon, I don't have any problems with dye in my freon, that's the way I've always done my system.....IF your system is in decent working condition, try to stay clear of just adding oil by itself................

It wasn't working properly before hand, hence replacing the accumulator. Also dealing with r12 to r134 since r12 isn't sold anymore. The ac pro has sealants in there including a small amount PAG oil.

If it had R12 it had mineral oil in it. If you put 134a in it you will need to put some amount of PAG oil in. I don't think the mineral oil is compatible with r12 in the sense that they don't mix and consequently the oil doesn't get carried around the system to lube the compressor. Back when 134a was new and there were a lot of conversion kits on the market they included a small can of PAG oil to add to the system. Some said it was "good enough" with that small amount of PAG oil, other said it was a ticking time bomb because it wasn't enough oil to do what was needed. You have a new accumulator so there is room in it for at least a couple oz of additional oil. Its not clear from what you have posted as to whether your system had a vacuum pulled on it before you started charging it with the "AC Pro" stuff. If it didn't have a vacuum then there is likely to be air in it and you don't want that. As to orifice tube, supposedly the orifice tube for R12 is different than the one for 134a and that would be why it would be changed. I don't know if it really makes all that much difference, people said a lot of stuff "back then" about these conversions and a lot of people did nothing but put in 134a and it worked. It's possible some of the end of the era R12 systems had an oil that was compatible with 134a but I don't know. You can google most of this stuff if you want to be safe.

Unfortunately due to my lack of knowledge and stupidity, It was not vacuumed so it'll have to be removed. And, according to google ill need to buy another accumulator since now all that moisture is in the accumulator and the orifice tube. I'll schedule a appointment at a local shop very soon to get it flushed. Google also said to add ester oil instead of PAG, is there really that much of a difference?

 

[Tom Alpers]

It wasn't working properly before hand, hence replacing the accumulator. Also dealing with r12 to r134 since r12 isn't sold anymore. The ac pro has sealants in there including a small amount PAG oil.


Unfortunately due to my lack of knowledge and stupidity, It was not vacuumed so it'll have to be removed. And, according to google ill need to buy another accumulator since now all that moisture is in the accumulator and the orifice tube. I'll schedule a appointment at a local shop very soon to get it flushed. Google also said to add ester oil instead of PAG, is there really that much of a difference?

Yes, that sounds right. Unless you really need to pinch every penny and are willing to learn how to do it and buy the equipment (maybe $200 for what you need), having a shop do it would be the way to go. I went thru this years ago when I had a 64 Tbird and wanted to get the AC system going again. I wrestled with whether to learn to do car AC or take it to a shop. I decided I owned enough other cars, plus did the family repairs on theirs, that I'd be way ahead in the long run to buy the equipment and learn how to do it. It's definitely been worth it in the long run.

 

[Fizz88]

Are we dealing with r12 or 134a, would not make a difference, just wondering....Was your a/c working fine before the accumulator was changed ? I ask because if all your other parts in the system was good, I'd vac pump it, (that not only gets out moisture and other crap but will also give you an ideal on what kind of leaks the system has by how long it can hold that vac.), now ya kinda lost me on the end, If the system was working fine before the accu. change, suck the system out and then add your freon up to around 40# low side, I've rebuilt mine on my '95 a couple times, I stay clear of any added sealants(glue) in my freon, I don't have any problems with dye in my freon, that's the way I've always done my system.....IF your system is in decent working condition, try to stay clear of just adding oil by itself................

It wasn't working properly before hand, hence replacing the accumulator. Also dealing with r12 to r134 since r12 isn't sold anymore. The ac pro has sealants in there including a small amount PAG oil.

If it had R12 it had mineral oil in it. If you put 134a in it you will need to put some amount of PAG oil in. I don't think the mineral oil is compatible with r12 in the sense that they don't mix and consequently the oil doesn't get carried around the system to lube the compressor. Back when 134a was new and there were a lot of conversion kits on the market they included a small can of PAG oil to add to the system. Some said it was "good enough" with that small amount of PAG oil, other said it was a ticking time bomb because it wasn't enough oil to do what was needed. You have a new accumulator so there is room in it for at least a couple oz of additional oil. Its not clear from what you have posted as to whether your system had a vacuum pulled on it before you started charging it with the "AC Pro" stuff. If it didn't have a vacuum then there is likely to be air in it and you don't want that. As to orifice tube, supposedly the orifice tube for R12 is different than the one for 134a and that would be why it would be changed. I don't know if it really makes all that much difference, people said a lot of stuff "back then" about these conversions and a lot of people did nothing but put in 134a and it worked. It's possible some of the end of the era R12 systems had an oil that was compatible with 134a but I don't know. You can google most of this stuff if you want to be safe.

Well I've called around in my local area and asked about any estimates for the job at multiple shops. Most said I'd have to bring it in for them to look at it then give a estimate. One gave a estimate for a range through $100 to $300. Another one said I'd need a new compressor and condenser, Im assuming the last one is just up-selling right?

 

[Tom Alpers]

It wasn't working properly before hand, hence replacing the accumulator. Also dealing with r12 to r134 since r12 isn't sold anymore. The ac pro has sealants in there including a small amount PAG oil.

Well I've called around in my local area and asked about any estimates for the job at multiple shops. Most said I'd have to bring it in for them to look at it then give a estimate. One gave a estimate for a range through $100 to $300. Another one said I'd need a new compressor and condenser, Im assuming the last one is just up-selling right?

No way to know without seeing it because it depends on why it stopped working. If it needs a compressor and condenser and accumulator it is likely to be over $1000. That's why I started doing my own work.

 

[mcm51]

@Fizz88, A shop may tell you to bring it in but once ya get there they are going to find all kinds of things wrong and an a/c bill on a total rebuild could be over $1500., I did a/c repair when I worked at a Ford dealership back in the mid 90's and any car that was not a simple freon charge was going to get full treatment, about $1400. back then, but I do use the full treatment method Ford taught me when I do mine and my friends and family, this includes compressor, accumulator, low pressure switch, orifice tube, and a flush of the evaporator and condensor............
YYI, when someone talks swapping a condensor, the radiator has to be removed, more labor time and price of new coolant.......
when someone talks swapping a evaporator, that's in passenger compartment, a mess to get out and many labor hours......
So the two most important things in your system that you try to keep o.e.m. and never mess with is the evap. and condensor if possible, just flush is evap and condensor, everything else you can get to and is quite swapable........Just some thoughts to consider..

 

[Fizz88]

No way to know without seeing it because it depends on why it stopped working. If it needs a compressor and condenser and accumulator it is likely to be over $1000. That's why I started doing my own work.

Oh.. well, would a regular old air compressor (Like the horizontal cylinder type) work to get that ac solvent in there and flush it that way if the shop is ridiculously expensive?)

 

[Fizz88]

@Fizz88, A shop may tell you to bring it in but once ya get there they are going to find all kinds of things wrong and an a/c bill on a total rebuild could be over $1500., I did a/c repair when I worked at a Ford dealership back in the mid 90's and any car that was not a simple freon charge was going to get full treatment, about $1400. back then, but I do use the full treatment method Ford taught me when I do mine and my friends and family, this includes compressor, accumulator, low pressure switch, orifice tube, and a flush of the evaporator and condensor............
YYI, when someone talks swapping a condensor, the radiator has to be removed, more labor time and price of new coolant.......
when someone talks swapping a evaporator, that's in passenger compartment, a mess to get out and many labor hours......
So the two most important things in your system that you try to keep o.e.m. and never mess with is the evap. and condensor if possible, just flush is evap and condensor, everything else you can get to and is quite swapable........Just some thoughts to consider..

So Im most likely going to need to learn how to do general A/C work and get the correct tools for it?

 

[Tom Alpers]

So Im most likely going to need to learn how to do general A/C work and get the correct tools for it?

YEs, if you decide to do it yourself. It's really not too hard. You'll need a set of gauges and a vacuum pump. I see pumps for $100 and cheap gauges for $50. As to flush, I bought a flush "gun", less than $50. I've used the genuine "flush" liquid and have also used lacquer thinner but only for parts that have no rubber components in them. If you decide to try and do it yourself, one of the first things to do is disconnect something and see if you can get some of the old oil to dribble out. You want to assess how dirty it looks. When compressors go bad you get what's called "black death", the aluminum parts that wear/break wind up in the oil as fine particles that make the oil look very black. That's what you would need to flush out. If the oil looks pretty good you may not have to worry too much about flushing. Next thing is to pull the orifice tube out and see what's in it. There will be something in it but you are looking at how much and what. Chunks of aluminum are not good but some sludge is likely to be on the screen. If you see chunks or suspect black death you should plan on getting a new compressor. You can't really test the compressor but you can turn it by hand (not just the outer clutch pulley) and get a feel for whether it's locked up or not. Do not get a rebuilt one, they are often crap. I have had good luck with the Chinese clones but YMMV. Last one I got was from Rockauto, I think the kit was around $200 which had compressor, oil, o-rings, orifice tube, accumulator. You can flush the condenser and evap if you think you need to but to do the evap you probably need to remove the expansion valve which can be hard to get to on some cars. If no evidence of black death you might be ok leaving the evap alone. Many say you can't flush a condenser anymore because the internal passageways are to small and it needs to be replaced. That's why shops always replace just about anything that can be easily gotten to which is most of the stuff other than the evap that's buried inside the dash.

 

[mcm51]

@Fizz88, learning a/c work is not as hard as people think, as long as that system has no charge in it, you can swap stuff out all you want and re-charging is not that big of a deal either, through the years I've taken and re-charged dry systems only using the can of freon with the gauge and hose on it from wal-mart, when you read all that stuff in the repair books about "don't touch this unless you know what your doing" is about messing with a "charged" system, as long as it's dead(no-charge) go to town on it, you could always swap out all the parts and take it to someone to charge it, it's that labor that eats you up, working on that '87 2.3 turbo is easy, I know, I've owned a 2.3 turbo in my '86 SVO for near 40 years, it's much harder to do a/c work on my '95 Bird with the 4.6......
I don't know how much of a mechanic you are but to get started in a/c work, ya don't need that much stuff, common tools, line dis-connect tools(cheap), vac. pump(don't cost that much and you'll have one the rest of your life), manifold gauges(optional, nice to have but if you was stuck on the side of the highway, you CAN recharge with the wal-mart 134a in the can with the hose/gauge on it).....
Hopefully your up north somewhere that you still got time to work on your a/c, I'm in north Florida and ya needed your a/c going a month ago here...........

 

[Fizz88]

Well do either of you know how I'd get the line that comes from the accumulator and goes to the compressor off? I'd rather pay the 22 or so bucks compared to 60+ for the one with the new line. Also, ive heard its hard to get the orifice tube off any tips for that?

 

[Fizz88]

@Fizz88, learning a/c work is not as hard as people think, as long as that system has no charge in it, you can swap stuff out all you want and re-charging is not that big of a deal either, through the years I've taken and re-charged dry systems only using the can of freon with the gauge and hose on it from wal-mart, when you read all that stuff in the repair books about "don't touch this unless you know what your doing" is about messing with a "charged" system, as long as it's dead(no-charge) go to town on it, you could always swap out all the parts and take it to someone to charge it, it's that labor that eats you up, working on that '87 2.3 turbo is easy, I know, I've owned a 2.3 turbo in my '86 SVO for near 40 years, it's much harder to do a/c work on my '95 Bird with the 4.6......
I don't know how much of a mechanic you are but to get started in a/c work, ya don't need that much stuff, common tools, line dis-connect tools(cheap), vac. pump(don't cost that much and you'll have one the rest of your life), manifold gauges(optional, nice to have but if you was stuck on the side of the highway, you CAN recharge with the wal-mart 134a in the can with the hose/gauge on it).....
Hopefully your up north somewhere that you still got time to work on your a/c, I'm in north Florida and ya needed your a/c going a month ago here...........

I'd say im probably a beginner, just some basic things like crimping wires some general maintenance and some other stuff. It's also kinda hot to have no ac in ky here, today its 84 degrees.

 

[Tom Alpers]

Well do either of you know how I'd get the line that comes from the accumulator and goes to the compressor off? I'd rather pay the 22 or so bucks compared to 60+ for the one with the new line. Also, ive heard its hard to get the orifice tube off any tips for that?

Sorry, I do not. Is the hose permanently attached??

 

[Fizz88]

Sorry, I do not. Is the hose permanently attached??

Im assuming its not considering the rockauto part. Maybe the lines to the original accumulator weren't permanently fixed and this new one is? If so I just find that really odd since it was pretty much like the original that went bad. Unfortunately I dont have the old one to compare since the shop that got all the stuff out the first time just threw it out.

 

[mcm51]

First off, We are talking about changing a part on the system, it has no pressure, completely dead on freon charge right ?
In the future, Always hang on to old parts till your sure the new stuff is working for comparison..........From your pic of the rockauto part, that looks like it don't match what's in the car(thanks for the photo's), It disconnects from the firewall side with that big nut and on the other end toward the compressor, not shown in your photo, follow the line until you run into whats called a quick dis-connect, a buldging part around the line, it has a round spring inside thus the shape, while were here, that plug in on the accum. is the low pressure switch..............I want ya to go to rockauto and look at this accum. (four seasons #55630), hopefully it's not the GPD 4811402, it looks like it has an expansion valve on it and would be a little harder to do, BUT check these two and match them against the one in the car, this is the one I think you need(#55630) it has that black hose permantly attached to it...The accum. in your photo is the wrong one......Wish I could see/follow the black hose line headed toward the compressor to see which of the two you need..............
Now the big nut on the firewall side and at the other end of the black hose coming off the accum. is a quick disconnect connection, go to ebay and look up a/c quick dis-connect tools, about $10., they come in a set of 6 for different sizes of lines, most of these sets are the color of white but I've seen them in black, once you look at this tool you'll see how you slide it into the bulge in the line to get that round spring to expand and allow you to pull the flaired side of the line out............
I'll start checking on your progress in the evenings as well as now, but it looks like the first thing you need to get on the way is a/c disconnect from ebay OR you could go to auto parts store, the'll have them, twice the price but you have them quick.......
1. make sure system has no pressure
2. get a/c quick disconnect tools
3. unplug that low pressure switch(one big locking tab holding it down)
4. break that big nut loose on line going into firewall(evap.)
5. using your disconnect tools, out of the 6, find the one that when closed, fits the line perfect and slide it into that round bulging part on the line, as your tool goes in, it will expand that round so the line can come apart.........

Let me know what other info ya need as ya go......................
5.

 

[Fizz88]

First off, We are talking about changing a part on the system, it has no pressure, completely dead on freon charge right ?
In the future, Always hang on to old parts till your sure the new stuff is working for comparison..........From your pic of the rockauto part, that looks like it don't match what's in the car(thanks for the photo's), It disconnects from the firewall side with that big nut and on the other end toward the compressor, not shown in your photo, follow the line until you run into whats called a quick dis-connect, a buldging part around the line, it has a round spring inside thus the shape, while were here, that plug in on the accum. is the low pressure switch..............I want ya to go to rockauto and look at this accum. (four seasons #55630), hopefully it's not the GPD 4811402, it looks like it has an expansion valve on it and would be a little harder to do, BUT check these two and match them against the one in the car, this is the one I think you need(#55630) it has that black hose permantly attached to it...The accum. in your photo is the wrong one......Wish I could see/follow the black hose line headed toward the compressor to see which of the two you need..............
Now the big nut on the firewall side and at the other end of the black hose coming off the accum. is a quick disconnect connection, go to ebay and look up a/c quick dis-connect tools, about $10., they come in a set of 6 for different sizes of lines, most of these sets are the color of white but I've seen them in black, once you look at this tool you'll see how you slide it into the bulge in the line to get that round spring to expand and allow you to pull the flaired side of the line out............
I'll start checking on your progress in the evenings as well as now, but it looks like the first thing you need to get on the way is a/c disconnect from ebay OR you could go to auto parts store, the'll have them, twice the price but you have them quick.......
1. make sure system has no pressure
2. get a/c quick disconnect tools
3. unplug that low pressure switch(one big locking tab holding it down)
4. break that big nut loose on line going into firewall(evap.)
5. using your disconnect tools, out of the 6, find the one that when closed, fits the line perfect and slide it into that round bulging part on the line, as your tool goes in, it will expand that round so the line can come apart.........

Let me know what other info ya need as ya go......................
5.

The bulging part of the line meaning the one shown in the previous photo right? Also more photos of the line. Pretty sure 55630 is the one in the car as of now. Even that part didn't fit correctly and the end of it had to be bent straight so itd plug into the compressor, before it was bent into place it would go on at a angle where it wouldn't connect. ( last image is the one showing that, its hard to see since the image is blurry. )