1964 Thunderbird Brake light issues

[Shadrack]

Here you go:

View attachment 3876

Beautiful Doug!!! Thank you so much - really helps! Looks like your green wire is attached to a lug, I guess that would complete the seatbelt circuit.

Keep them coming folks, every bit helps!

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[fordrodsteven]

I'm heading out for dinner but …. This is what I gleaned (so far) from the diagrams I'm looking at;

 

[Shadrack]

I don't see any sequencer in the circuits in the diagrams. SO.... that's good news. It means it's not nearly as complicated as later year Thunderbirds with the sequentially blinking directional. The directional switch is in the steering column. If you have brake lights then the power would feed through the directional switch to make one side blink while the other side has brake lights. Like I said earlier. I'm concerned that you said the directional worked and you didn't have brake lights. Whomever messed with the wiring may have jumped power to the directional but not through the brake light switch. Go back to the troubleshooting process outlined by DJ Dan. Figure out what you have first. I would be a little leery of just hooking up that green red wire until I have a better idea of what is done to the wiring. One thing you can do is check continuity from that spade lug at the fuse box to the plug at the brake light switch. That way you can verify the wire goes where I think it goes and not melt or fry anything by hooking up power.

Hey Steve,
I like good news lol. I am a little confused about where the brake light switch wire would be - color, location? I will also do a continuity test as well. Do you guys think this is out of my spectrum - so far I have learned SO MUCH and have done more electrically than I ever had. With your guidance, all of you, I think I can do it, but if you guys think I may burn the car down I will take it to the shop lol.

 

[64ZCODE]

Beautiful Doug!!! Thank you so much - really helps! Looks like your green wire is attached to a lug, I guess that would complete the seatbelt circuit.

Keep them coming folks, every bit helps!

I have the seatbelt light in the center console, is that what you’re referring to?

Don, you’ll be the go to guy for electrical problems once you get through this🙂

 

[Shadrack]

I have the seatbelt light in the center console, is that what you’re referring to?

Don, you’ll be the go to guy for electrical problems once you get through this🙂

LOL not after my latest mistake! Ouch! I will rreply to Steve's post - I really messed up!

 

[Shadrack]

I'm heading out for dinner but …. This is what I gleaned (so far) from the diagrams I'm looking at;
View attachment 3877

Steve, this is amazing work! Any further information is most appreciated.

 

[40birds]

Sequential lights didn’t start till 65, they are cool but atleast you don’t have the issues with them on top of your other things. I’ll try to find some of my old notes I have on how to test/jumper/ and make your lights function. There used to be a place called Nicks t birds, I’m pretty sure he retired but he helped me when I was going thru similar issues your having. I haven’t had my 64 for over 20 years now so give me a little bit to search

 

[Shadrack]

I don't see any sequencer in the circuits in the diagrams. SO.... that's good news. It means it's not nearly as complicated as later year Thunderbirds with the sequentially blinking directional. The directional switch is in the steering column. If you have brake lights then the power would feed through the directional switch to make one side blink while the other side has brake lights. Like I said earlier. I'm concerned that you said the directional worked and you didn't have brake lights. Whomever messed with the wiring may have jumped power to the directional but not through the brake light switch. Go back to the troubleshooting process outlined by DJ Dan. Figure out what you have first. I would be a little leery of just hooking up that green red wire until I have a better idea of what is done to the wiring. One thing you can do is check continuity from that spade lug at the fuse box to the plug at the brake light switch. That way you can verify the wire goes where I think it goes and not melt or fry anything by hooking up power.

Hey Steve,

A man admits his mistakes, and boy did a make a dumb one! I hooked the green/red wire up to 12 volts, used a piece of copper on the stop light plug to jump both sides and I let it fall - it shorted out and broke the inline fuse. No huge deal, just took the copper out, plugged the switch back in and closed the broken block fuse by attaching the ends together.

THIS IS WHERE IT GOES REALLY SOUTH -

I got in the car and started it up with the headlights on. I pressed the brakes a few times...and I lost my interior lights totally and my taillights. The radio light even is out. The tail lights still flash with the blinkers and the headlights still come on, but no taillights or interior lights. I checked all the fuses - all are fine and not broken.

Is it possible that I blew the headlight switch and it also is not allowing the interior lights to come on? Horn still works, emergency flashers still work with taillights work with the turn signals - I feel like a total idiot.

What did a possibly blow other than the headlight switch? The stop light relay? I am just worried that i LOST ALL interior lights.?

Below is the aftermath of hooking the green/red wire up and then accidentally allowing the stop light plug to ground. I also found that one of the wires goes to the start solenoid. This is before I started the car and killed my interior lights and taillights.........I am so dumb.

 

[Shadrack]

Hey Steve,

A man admits his mistakes, and boy did a make a dumb one! I hooked the green/red wire up to 12 volts, used a piece of copper on the stop light plug to jump both sides and I let it fall - it shorted out and broke the inline fuse. No huge deal, just took the copper out, plugged the switch back in and closed the broken block fuse by attaching the ends together.

THIS IS WHERE IT GOES REALLY SOUTH -

I got in the car and started it up with the headlights on. I pressed the brakes a few times...and I lost my interior lights totally and my taillights. The radio light even is out. The tail lights still flash with the blinkers and the headlights still come on, but no taillights or interior lights. I checked all the fuses - all are fine and not broken.

Is it possible that I blew the headlight switch and it also is not allowing the interior lights to come on? Horn still works, emergency flashers still work with taillights work with the turn signals - I feel like a total idiot.

What did a possibly blow other than the headlight switch? The stop light relay? I am just worried that i LOST ALL interior lights.?

Below is the aftermath of hooking the green/red wire up and then accidentally allowing the stop light plug to ground. I also found that one of the wires goes to the start solenoid. This is before I started the car and killed my interior lights and taillights.........I am so dumb.

View attachment 3878

OKAY! LOL WOW - I FEEL SO DUMB - BUT EVERYTHING IS WORKING. NONE OF THE FUSES WERE BROKEN. I POPPED THEM ALL OUT AND BACK IN AND I GOT ALL MY LIGHTS BACK!

So what did we learn kids - listen to Uncle Steve, all is not lost, you can install a new headlight switch in minutes when you think all is lost, and fuses are really important.

I am still confused about the square fuse that I broke when I grounded out the boot for the switch. One of those lines runs to the starter solenoid and inside the car, the other runs to the boot itself, assuming it gets it power from the starter solenoid?

So, when I hooked up the green/red to a constant 12v it did not make the tail lights work, and it did not break fuses, but just...caused them to pop out?

So...does my hard learned lesson give any clues?

 

[Shadrack]

I also wanted to mention that while I would like to use the factory wiring to do this (and get it sorted), I am open to running new line as well. Any suggestions on that part of the adventure? I don't want to run a new line but I will if I must. I really appreciate the help guys!

 

[40birds]

Ok, I found my old info so I will post up some pics of the tech tips. I will include all of them on this topic instead of adding them to your other posts. I believe you said you replaced the relay, I know when I had mine it wasn’t available but that was 20 some years ago. I will also include his tech tips on your shifter questions and I also found a wiring schematic for your 64. I haven’t spoken to Nick in probably 10 years or so and I think he retired but he was very knowledgeable and helped tremendously. Good luck I’m sure you can get this sorted out.

 

[Shadrack]

View attachment 3879 View attachment 3882 View attachment 3880 View attachment 3881 Ok, I found my old info so I will post up some pics of the tech tips. I will include all of them on this topic instead of adding them to your other posts. I believe you said you replaced the relay, I know when I had mine it wasn’t available but that was 20 some years ago. I will also include his tech tips on your shifter questions and I also found a wiring schematic for your 64. I haven’t spoken to Nick in probably 10 years or so and I think he retired but he was very knowledgeable and helped tremendously. Good luck I’m sure you can get this sorted out.

This is VERY cool- THANK YOU! My main worry is the gree/red wire - it is located near my fuse box but I am unsure of where to connect it? Any of you guys dare a guess? I am unsure - also I am unsure of why in the heck they put this weird fuse in the boot line.

 

[40birds]

Well if I’m looking at the wiring diagram correctly, I don’t have my glasses on, but your green red at the fuse box would be connected to a circuit breaker which you appear to be missing. The other end of the green red would be at your stop light switch

 

[fordrodsteven]

This is VERY cool- THANK YOU! My main worry is the gree/red wire - it is located near my fuse box but I am unsure of where to connect it? Any of you guys dare a guess? I am unsure - also I am unsure of why in the heck they put this weird fuse in the boot line.

What do you mean by "boot line"?

 

[64ZCODE]

View attachment 3879 View attachment 3882 View attachment 3880 View attachment 3881 Ok, I found my old info so I will post up some pics of the tech tips. I will include all of them on this topic instead of adding them to your other posts. I believe you said you replaced the relay, I know when I had mine it wasn’t available but that was 20 some years ago. I will also include his tech tips on your shifter questions and I also found a wiring schematic for your 64. I haven’t spoken to Nick in probably 10 years or so and I think he retired but he was very knowledgeable and helped tremendously. Good luck I’m sure you can get this sorted out.

Hi 40birds, what manual is this? Looks interesting and different than the shop manual that I have. Thanks, Doug

 

[40birds]

Hi 40birds, what manual is this? Looks interesting and different than the shop manual that I have. Thanks, Doug

It wasn’t ever in a manual, Back when he was still in business Nick would put tons of tips/ tricks thru out his parts catalog. I just have kept this catalog in my stash as I use it as reference as it was info from a guy that worked on these for a living and was always willing to share what he had found.

 

[64ZCODE]

It wasn’t ever in a manual, Back when he was still in business Nick would put tons of tips/ tricks thru out his parts catalog. I just have kept this catalog in my stash as I use it as reference as it was info from a guy that worked on these for a living and was always willing to share what he had found.

Hi 40birds. The little bit I read looked very helpful and practical. I would gladly pay for reproduction and shipping costs to get a copy. Hope that’s not an imposition. Thanks, Doug

 

[Shadrack]

What do you mean by "boot line"?

Sorry about that! I mean the boot that fits of the brake light switch. One of the lines is hacked into a line that is going to the starter solenoid and another line that is going into the car. There was a 15a square fuse in it - I am just all kinds of confused about that. Here is a picture. I can take better ones as well.

 

[fordrodsteven]

Sorry about that! I mean the boot that fits of the brake light switch. One of the lines is hacked into a line that is going to the starter solenoid and another line that is going into the car. There was a 15a square fuse in it - I am just all kinds of confused about that. Here is a picture. I can take better ones as well.

I would guess, based on information from 40birds, that connection there was an attempt at bypassing the brake switch relay. If you check continuity from those back to the green-red wire at the fuse box you may find it is the wire you are looking for. The other wire you have there probably goes to the brake light switch.

I have updated the sketch I drew and I hope this helps you a little bit.

 

[fordrodsteven]

Well if I’m looking at the wiring diagram correctly, I don’t have my glasses on, but your green red at the fuse box would be connected to a circuit breaker which you appear to be missing. The other end of the green red would be at your stop light switch

At first I didn't understand but now I think I do. You are referring to that open rectangular hole in the fuse box picture that nemesis posted. I guess there is supposed to be a 15A relay in that position and that it is for the brake light circuit. Then after reading what nemesis wrote in another post (#40) it sounds like someone tried to operate the brake light circuit by jumping from the starter solenoid with a 15A in-line blade fuse rather than from the fuse box.