1964 Tbird Transmission concerns

[Shadrack]

Hello All,
I have wanted a 64 tbird for all my life - finally was able to save some cash to buy one. Bought it off eBay and am having it shipped to my house. The seller tells me that the car has to warm up first before it will go into gear - once it does that it shifts fine. Does this mean a whole transmission rebuild or is it some sort of pump or something? I don't have the car yet, just trying to allocate funds and plan.

What else do you all recommend I do to the car upon getting it. It is supposed to be a good driver.

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[fordrodsteven]

It could jut be low on fluid. Maybe the person who owned it did not know how to properly check transmission fluid level. Usually the dipstick will tell you what you need to do to check fluid. If I remember correctly you would have a C6 transmission and you should check it when the car is running with the shifter in neutral (possibly in Park but running nonetheless). I personally run it through drive, neutral, reverse a couple times before I check the fluid level. That way all the fluid that is going through valves and passages is where it should be.

If the previous owner checked it with the car shut off and sitting in Park they would get an erroneous reading. That would be the proper way to check the engine oil but not the transmission fluid.

Other things I would do, because you don't know the history of the car, is change out fuel, air and oil filters. Definitely check, flush if possible, the brake system. Most important to be able to stop once you have it running / moving! Another thing you could do is change out the transmission filter and fluid. It could possibly be burnt from trying to drive it when cold and low on fluid. Also many people never think to change transmission fluid if ever.

Once you do those things I mentioned it would be nice if you came back here and told us how you made out. If it still slips afterwards, it is possible it needs a minor adjustment or a torque converter rather than any other work on the transmission but...... Change oils and filters first!

 

[64ZCODE]

Wow! Buying a car sight unseen off Ebay. Hope the name "nemesis" isn't foreshadowing of evil things to come (just kidding). Definitely please keep us in the loop as you progress on this.

I agree with what's been said about fluid levels and taking care of the basics like changing fluids. One thing I'd point out in addition is that the shift lever mechanisms on these cars all seem to become dodgy at some point. Given the prior owner's vague description of what is going on, it's possible that either the mechanism is loose or else the shift lever and linkage at the tranny is not synced properly with the shift linkage on the side of the tranny. Why would this change as the car warms up? Heat expansion and entropy? Who knows.

I have a '64 and will be glad to compare notes as you progress on this.

Good luck!

Doug

 

[Gary Tayman]

Wow, where do I begin?

First off, transmission: check the fluid level. You do this by putting the car in neutral or park and measuring the dipstick with the motor idling. Now -- if you've never owned a Thunderbird before, you will quickly learn that this car had one of the worst design flaws imaginable on a car -- the shift lever. DO NOT get out of the car with the motor running, ever. EVER. EVER! Sit in the car with your foot on the brake, and have someone else measure the stick. Or, measure the stick while someone else sits in the car with his/her foot on the brake. Just a little vibration can cause the transmission to drop into Drive or Reverse. Moving the steering column to the right will help hold it in Park, but still don't trust it.

That being said, if fluid level is fine and the transmission has morning sickness, it has probably never been rebuilt in all of it's 55 years. Time to rebuild it.

Next on the agenda, before you drive the car more than about ten feet, replace the brakes. At least inspect them, and check the brake hoses and lines. A hose can let go, or, more common, gets stopped up and the brakes don't want to release. The steel brake lines can also give you grief -- and I'll tell you exactly where to look. There's a metal plate directly under the driver's door hinge. Mud cakes up inside, and the line rots. Replace with stainless steel lines; believe it or not it's not hard to do. The worst is the right front -- threading it through all the hoses and wires on the firewall. But even that isn't hard. Heck, if I could do it . . .

One more unrelated thing to look for, pull up the carpeting, remove the carpet backing (which is soaking wet, trust me) and inspect the floors. Deal with as needed.

You may have other issues, I don't know as I haven't seen the car. So you may find yourself spending money up front, but never gear -- once you've got it safe and roadworthy, it's a fun car to drive and own.

 

[fordrodsteven]

Hello All,
I have wanted a 64 tbird for all my life - finally was able to save some cash to buy one. Bought it off eBay and am having it shipped to my house. The seller tells me that the car has to warm up first before it will go into gear - once it does that it shifts fine. Does this mean a whole transmission rebuild or is it some sort of pump or something? I don't have the car yet, just trying to allocate funds and plan.

What else do you all recommend I do to the car upon getting it. It is supposed to be a good driver.

You say you don't have a lot of funding. Just start with the inexpensive easy things first. You will learn more and more what the car needs as you go along. Don't make it more complicated and expensive than it needs to be.

 

[Dlluinstra]

Change the brake and fuel lines and hoses. Buy the prebent kits.
Replace all filters and fluids.

 

[Gary Tayman]

You say you don't have a lot of funding. Just start with the inexpensive easy things first. You will learn more and more what the car needs as you go along. Don't make it more complicated and expensive than it needs to be.

I PARTIALLY agree. Start with safety before taking that car out for the proverbial Sunday drive. If those brakes are about to let go, most likely with no warning whatsoever, I wouldn't exactly start with the clock. Unless you intend to keep it in the garage while you do a frame-off, your best bet is to have a really good inspection of the brakes, steering and front end, and basically everything your safety depends on. Next would be reliability -- ignition wires, hoses, carb, etc. After that, do as you see fit.

This forum, and others like it, are a great resource, along with clubs and experienced mechanics who understand these cars. That brake lines/hoses thing comes from experience; I have a certain hole in the garage wall, ask me how it got there. If the car has been sitting a long time, expect the rear axle bearings to start growling. The transmission morning sickness is very common on these cars, stemming from the fact that it's over 50 years old and never really needed that much maintenance. Well, it does now; the rubber parts are rotted. I can go on and on, it's good to know.

I'll also tell you up front, you picked one of the worst cars imaginable in terms of the cost of restoration vs. what it's worth when you're finished. This car is actually a Lincoln, built in the Lincoln factory and designed in the same manner. Why use 3 moving parts when you can do it with 47? Why make components easy to reach when you can bury them behind body panels? The parts themselves are high, remembering there's a relatively small base of cars to divide the cost of manufacturing. Once you're finished the car isn't worth much on the market. BUT -- I never bought my car to flip it, and it's rare that I see another at a car show -- and the car attracts attention everywhere it goes. Project Thunderbirds are diamonds in the rough.

 

[Shadrack]

First let me say - WOW - I love my car - but WOW - am I in for some work! There is more surface rust than I was led to believe, and it starts right up but is running a little rich.

I need to get the horn working somehow to pass inspection - gonna start there.

It seems to shift okay but does not want to solidly go into gear at times - is this a knuckle or selector problem - I guess I should ask - what should I replace in the column? It feels sloppy, the selector. The owner said that it took a bit for it to go into gear Turn signals WORK fine.

What is the weather stripping around the top of the side windows called and is it really hard to replace?

Here is the one that hurts my heart - the speedo does not work 🙁 It is like it is stuck, it shows some red and thats it. Where should I start on that

I think that is it for now - I bought a shop manual on CD and a wiring diagram book for 1964 cars as well - but maybe you bird guys can help me to quick fixes.

OH! Forgot to add this, the doors wont lock, they are power "vacuum," I am assuming? Anyway to they feel frozen, any thoughts?

 

[64ZCODE]

Sounds like triage time!

Careful with the transmission issue. Others with more experience will weigh in on the details of how to fix sloppy shifters, but just want to warn you that one potential issue is the car is idling in Park and shifts itself into Reverse. Not good. So short term you can consider using wheel chocks any time the car is running and you're not in the drivers seat.

I'm just sayin'!

 

[Shadrack]

Sounds like triage time!

Careful with the transmission issue. Others with more experience will weigh in on the details of how to fix sloppy shifters, but just want to warn you that one potential issue is the car is idling in Park and shifts itself into Reverse. Not good. So short term you can consider using wheel chocks any time the car is running and you're not in the drivers seat.

I'm just sayin'!

Gotcha! EEK!

 

[64ZCODE]

Also, these cars have vacuum emergency brake releases which are actuated with the car is put into gear. Mine was disconnected when I got the car. But, you can imagine a "Christine" type situation where she shifts herself into gear, lets off the 'ol emergency brake, and runs over your ass while you're looking the other way...

My '64's shift mechanism is a bit loose and it will shift itself out of Park and for that matter will not hold itself in Park when the engine is off and the car is on an incline. So, I've left the vacuum e brake mechanism disconnected and just use the manual release brake release. I doubt I'll reconnect the vacuum e brake release even after I finally fix the shifter.

Shifter issues include worn bushings in the steering column, worn detent plate in the steering column, worn shift lever, and wonky/loose connection at the tranny. I'm just a dabbler.

I've not heard of vacuum door locks on these cars but maybe some have that. Even with a vacuum door lock I would think the lock button would still work even if the vacuum is not connected. FYI on my car you can't lock the door with the key from the outside unless the door is closed.

When was your car made? It's on the data plate on the driver's door.

Pictures, we need pictures.

Doug

 

[64ZCODE]

Speedos I don't know about, but others do.

Weather stripping is easy, you have to scrape off the old stuff, make sure the surface is clean, apply contact cement to the surface and the weather stripping, and press it into place.

Good sources of parts:
Bird Nest: http://tbirdparts.com/
Thunderbird Headquarters: http://www.tbirdhq.com/
Pat Wilson's: https://www.wilsontbird.com/
NOS Parts: https://nospartsltd.com/product/c3sz2001d/

Others will have good suggestions on where to find parts. The good news is you could about build a car with the parts you can find and source.

Running rich? What's the carb? Probably needs a rebuild or flat out a replacement. Holleys and Edelbrocks seem to be what people are using. I just put a 670 cfm Holley street avenger on my '64.

Yes, we live to help each other with these cars. Some of us have no social life or reason for being other than TBirds🙂

Doug

 

[Shadrack]

Speedos I don't know about, but others do.

Weather stripping is easy, you have to scrape off the old stuff, make sure the surface is clean, apply contact cement to the surface and the weather stripping, and press it into place.

Good sources of parts:
Bird Nest: http://tbirdparts.com/
Thunderbird Headquarters: http://www.tbirdhq.com/
Pat Wilson's: https://www.wilsontbird.com/
NOS Parts: https://nospartsltd.com/product/c3sz2001d/

Others will have good suggestions on where to find parts. The good news is you could about build a car with the parts you can find and source.

Running rich? What's the carb? Probably needs a rebuild or flat out a replacement. Holleys and Edelbrocks seem to be what people are using. I just put a 670 cfm Holley street avenger on my '64.

Yes, we live to help each other with these cars. Some of us have no social life or reason for being other than TBirds🙂

Doug

Hey Doug,
My name is Don. So this would apply the weather stripping above the power windows as well? It is just brittle and cracked and it leaks some. Listen - I really appreciate all the help.

 

[Shadrack]

Speedos I don't know about, but others do.

Weather stripping is easy, you have to scrape off the old stuff, make sure the surface is clean, apply contact cement to the surface and the weather stripping, and press it into place.

Good sources of parts:
Bird Nest: http://tbirdparts.com/
Thunderbird Headquarters: http://www.tbirdhq.com/
Pat Wilson's: https://www.wilsontbird.com/
NOS Parts: https://nospartsltd.com/product/c3sz2001d/

Others will have good suggestions on where to find parts. The good news is you could about build a car with the parts you can find and source.

Running rich? What's the carb? Probably needs a rebuild or flat out a replacement. Holleys and Edelbrocks seem to be what people are using. I just put a 670 cfm Holley street avenger on my '64.

Yes, we live to help each other with these cars. Some of us have no social life or reason for being other than TBirds🙂

Doug

Hey Doug,
It has an edelbrock on it. I pulled a few plugs before it started raining 🙁 and they smelled a bit like gas. The edelbrock looks like it has been in service for a bit.

Also, pictures to come soon 🙂

 

[64ZCODE]

Hi Don. The Edelbrock could be worn out, gummed up, needing a rebuild, or just plain too big for the engine. I put a too big carb on an engine once and there was so much gas going into the intake that it diluted the crankcase oil. Heavy sigh...in which Doug learns that more is not necessarily better.

Also, not to point out the obvious, but check the air filter and make sure it's not plugged up and restricting air into the carb. FYI the stock air cleaner housings on these cars are pretty restrictive and your car will run better/stronger with a circular K&N or similar air filter.

I'd venture that most of the weather stripping is glue on. One exception are the fuzzy strips on the doors that the windows go down through, those have clips and are press on. I need to replace those on my car one of these days and until I do, it doesn't get driven in the rain.

Steele is another company that sells weatherstripping. I put the info in their search window and here's the page. I assumed your car is a 2 door hardtop:

https://www.steelerubber.com/search?year=1964&make=ford&model=thunderbird&style=2-door-hardtop

Doug

 

[Shadrack]

Hey Doug,

Here is the weird thing. The delivery guy was Cuban and I had a hard time understanding him. Super nice!! Loves American iron. I wish I spoke Spanish but I never took a foreign language - Latin does count 🙂. Anyways, he said the brake was stuck and he asked me for my "long wood." (I had to laugh, wanted my long wood - LMAO) Anyways, I got him a 2x4x2 and he kept slamming the brake and it came loose. I was shocked but hey...it worked...wonder what that means?

 

[Gary Tayman]

Congratulations on your find! Sounds like you've got quite a project!

First thing, voice of experience, inspect those brakes, especially the lines! Hoses can cause you grief, and the brake line going to the rear has a bend, right under the front door hinge, where it rusts and one day lets go. Fuel line is next to it, and wouldn't hurt to replace that as well. You can buy new stainless steel brake lines, you'll never have to mess with them again.

Now for some of the other issues: transmission shift lever, the lever itself wears out. You can buy new ones, but I've also heard of people getting a welder to make a new "bead" over the worn area, and it lasts longer. Detent plate, and there's a big doughnut that goes on the lower part of the steering column -- it simply falls out. They're plastic -- why hasn't someone come up with a better one? Whatever, you have to hold the lever up to start the car, and indeed it has a tendency to jump into reverse. The only saving grace here is that it locks in Park if you swing the column to the right. But still be careful. I NEVER get out of my car with the motor running!

Speedometer: Mine also quit. Maybe it's the transmission gear, maybe it's the cable, but I'm expecting to remove the speedometer head. If this is the case I'm sending it to D&M Restoration in Greenville, South Carolina. They specialize in gauges.

Transmission, start by checking the fluid. If it's fine, and the tranny is persnickety, get it rebuilt. More than likely it's over 50 years old and never been serviced; rubber parts are rotten. The most common symptom is morning sickness -- won't go into gear immediately, often no reverse, but after several minutes it starts working.

You're dealing with an antique car, to be sure, so a lot of this type of service is to be expected. You'll also find this to be one of the more expensive cars to rebuild. But you're rewarded in the end with a really nice car that turns heads -- and doesn't really feel like an antique when you drive it.

 

[Dj-Dan]

My 64 T-Bird has vacuum locks. Some 64 T-Birds had the road option. Door/fuel/lock/flasher option. Mine had that option but had to put in AC.

 

[Shadrack]

My 64 T-Bird has vacuum locks. Some 64 T-Birds had the road option. Door/fuel/lock/flasher option. Mine had that option but had to put in AC.

Very cool - does anyone have any diagrams of the vacuum system - specifically the lock system?

Listen - THANK YOU ALL SO MUCH! This friendly welcome is awesome!

 

[64ZCODE]

Veni, vidi, vici. That's what it's all about when it comes to TBird problems🙂