1962 ignition problem

[johnpaul]

I replaced the spark plugs and coil and did something wrong with one of those replacements. Unfortunately, I didn't try to start it between replacing the spark plugs and replacing the coil, so I'm not sure where I went wrong. I gapped the plugs, connected each spark plug wire to the correct cylinder, and I rewired the new coil just as the old one was. It was a cold start after sitting for a week so I expected some cranking, which it did. Sounded like it was going to turn over, then when I attempted again it cranked briefly and then stopped cranking altogether even though I still had the key in the start position. This occurred after several more attempts to start it, even after switching back to the old coil. The last attempt resulted in that awful grinding starter sound, which is when I quit. Any thoughts? It has pertronix electronic ignition, which was working fine prior to all of this.

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[64ZCODE]

Hi johnpaul. The starting problem is likely unrelated to the plugs and coil. Sounds more like a starter problem. I believe the bullet birds have a centrifugal clutch that engages the starter with the flywheel when you turn the key and then the starter turns the flywheel. I'm thinking that clutch may be bad or malfunctioning for some reason. The grinding starter noise you mentioned is probably the starter teeth partially engaging with the flywheel.

Doug

 

[biddle]

Post the model year in the subject in the future. Added for you.

 

[johnpaul]

Post the model year in the subject in the future. Added for you.

View attachment 3761

Thanks, will do.

 

[johnpaul]

Hi johnpaul. The starting problem is likely unrelated to the plugs and coil. Sounds more like a starter problem. I believe the bullet birds have a centrifugal clutch that engages the starter with the flywheel when you turn the key and then the starter turns the flywheel. I'm thinking that clutch may be bad or malfunctioning for some reason. The grinding starter noise you mentioned is probably the starter teeth partially engaging with the flywheel.

Doug

Thank you. Since I acquired the car, during cold starts that require a lot of cranking, after releasing the key from the start to run position, after a failed start attempt, I've noticed that the starter sounds sort of like it's "winding down" rather than just stopping. My previous 63 and 64 never did that.

One other thing that I did not include in my original post is that I had the distibutor vacuum disconnected. Would that cause the problem I described?

 

[64ZCODE]

No, the problem is probably the starter and not related to fuel or ignition or vacuum. The bendix (centrifugal clutch) mechanism is replaceable if that turns out to be the problem. I think either the bendix is bad or the starter motor is weak, possibly due to worn out brushes. Make sure the battery is fully charged, or jumped to a good battery, to ensure the starter is getting full power.

 

[johnpaul]

I was just under the car removing the bolts that secure the starter. After removing the two with the easiest access I was surprised to find that the starter didn't budge one bit. There was still the third bolt in place, but I expected some movement, either swiveling on the remaining bolt or some separation from the flyweel housing where the bolts were removed. However, nothing, it seemed as if it's all one big piece. That's when I came inside for a break to look at pictures online before removing the last bolt. Is it typical for the starter to be stuck on the flywheel housing after the bolts are removed?

 

[64ZCODE]

It can fit tightly. Loosen that third bolt and whack it with a mallet to dislodge it.

 

[johnpaul]

Thank you, this information is extremely helpful, even if I don't end up doing it all myself I know what to discuss if I bring it to mechanic.

 

[64ZCODE]

Hi, new information, I understand that the starter has to be tilted in order to pull it all the way out. I think what's happening is the bendix mechanism has to clear the flywheel on the way out.

 

[johnpaul]

Hi, new information, I understand that the starter has to be tilted in order to pull it all the way out. I think what's happening is the bendix mechanism has to clear the flywheel on the way out.

Ok, thanks, probable won't be back at it until the weekend.

 

[johnpaul]

Hi, new information, I understand that the starter has to be tilted in order to pull it all the way out. I think what's happening is the bendix mechanism has to clear the flywheel on the way out.

Very difficult but removed it. Wires inside look kind of cruddy. I was thinking of rebuilding it myself. Any thoughts, versus replacing it?

 

[64ZCODE]

Hi Johnpaul. I think I saw a post about rebuilding these starters and am confident there are some of our fellow forum-ites here who could comment on it. The post I saw indicated that just replacing the brushes might rejuvenate a failing starter, and that shouldn't be hard to do. The bendix can be bad and that's replaceable also.

As far as finding a replacement starter, don't know. I've heard that the starters can have different numbers of teeth so that might be critical to confirm. You could certainly try Bird Nest and Thunderbird Headquarters to see what they have in stock.

However, I'm looking at one of your earlier posts where you talk about the starter sounding like it's winding down after a failed starting attempt. That may not be the starter at all. I had the same thing happening on my '64 when the engine would try but fail to start, and the engine would not turn over 350 rpm or so before dying. You've got some sort of starting issue related to carburetion or ignition that needs to be solved, sounds like. Happy to help with resolving that if you need the help.

That said, now that the damned starter is out, probably best to rebuild or replace it given the pain the ass it is to pull it and put it back in.

Doug