1957 Overheating

[Nico57]

My observations over the the past 25 years are that overheating is most often a problem not actually related to the cooling system. Instead I find incorrect timing, an engine with quite a few mils on may be better timed by vacuum. Another common problem is still timing related in that an inoperative vacuum advance is common. Thirdly faulty choke mechanism is also quite a common problem. Last; how good is the overall engine condition. Although not necessarily related, all 292s and 312s have solid lifters. they should be adjusted at least every 10,000 miles. I prefer to do it annually with a P&G valve gapper. Too tight result: burned valves. Too loose noisy and lower performance. Before going right to the radiator a the source of the problems check the rest of the engines systems. One caveat is the it is not a big problem or expense to have the core rodded out. that can only help.

while all those can affect coolant temp, in older engines and older radiators the corrosions, rust, and block of the coolant passages starts the list of cooling probems, tho easy enough to be sure the engine is properly timed and that the advance both mechanical and vacuum are working.
Nick

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[Rogvh]

I had or thought I had an overheating issue. The gauge would rise and peg so I installed a six-blade fan. Didn't make much difference. I next put a stick-on thermometer and it didn't show that high of a temp. Upon further discussion I realized the radiator didn't overflow. I came back from a show and the engine started sputtering like it was running out of gas, yet the fuel gauge read about a quarter. Coasted into a gas station and took more than 3/4's of a tank. I pulled the instrument voltage regulator and the temp and fuel gauges and sent them to a rebuilder. IVR was okay but the gauges needed re-calibrating. Never had to worry again since it wasn't overheating in the first place. Amazing how a high-reading temp gauge can "tie your stomach in knots"! BTW, I agree that 190ish is desirable for non-sludging and efficiency.

 

[Dennis Williams]

I have a 1957 312 auto that after 20 minutes of running (in mixed traffic) pegs the meter. New stat, radiator flush,re-built engine,etc. Hand-held thermo shows 197 d, 189 at the radiator. What to do?

Overheating on these Birds is caused because of the 1 inch spacer between the water pump and the engine. The water pump is quite ineffective. 2 solutions. There is a baffle available and a new water pump with blades on the reverse side.

 

[Ward 57]

Overheating on these Birds is caused because of the 1 inch spacer between the water pump and the engine. The water pump is quite ineffective. 2 solutions. There is a baffle available and a new water pump with blades on the reverse side.

That actually is not out of the temperature these engines like to tun at. Mine sometimes goes past the white line but the engine has never complained.
Do you have the full fan shroud? Sometimes the bottom half has disappeared. Could make a difference.

 

[Dennis Williams]

That actually is not out of the temperature these engines like to tun at. Mine sometimes goes past the white line but the engine has never complained.
Do you have the full fan shroud? Sometimes the bottom half has disappeared. Could make a difference.

I have had 5 Baby Birds and know them well. 2 56's & 3 57's. I currently have a 57 that I have fitted rack & pinion which allowed me to remove the 1 inch spacer. I am installing an electric fan. I am in Australia. The reason they run hot is because of the 1 inch spacer between the water pump and the engine making the water pump inefficient due to the impeller being too far from the back of the pump cavity. Cavitation is the result. The spacer was installed to facilitate power steering. The other problem is the build up in the rear of the block that is like concrete to remove, time consuming and awkward. Tank dipping does not remove this. I spent around 12 hours chipping it away.

 

[swatson999]

Re: spacer, there's a redesigned one that cleans up the volute to create better flow at lower RPMs. Chris at Paragon makes them.

So my list of things to address overheating, with the ones I've done in green.

Larger opening thermostat
6-bladed fan
High-flow water pump
1" smaller water pump pulley
Redesigned spacer
Different radiator (lots of debate over what's "best")
Engine water jacket passage clean-out

There might be others. Those 4 items definitely seem to have improved the cooling, but we'll really know when summer comes.

 

[Dennis Williams]

Re: spacer, there's a redesigned one that cleans up the volute to create better flow at lower RPMs. Chris at Paragon makes them.

So my list of things to address overheating, with the ones I've done in green.

Larger opening thermostat
6-bladed fan
High-flow water pump
1" smaller water pump pulley
Redesigned spacer
Different radiator (lots of debate over what's "best")
Engine water jacket passage clean-out

There might be others. Those 4 items definitely seem to have improved the cooling, but we'll really know when summer comes.

I have eliminated the 1 inch spacer, so no need for the upgraded pump. Also cleaned out the block. I will be using a 16inch 2120cfm thermo fan and eliminating the original belt driven fan. As I have stated, it is the 1 inch spacer that is the problem, it impedes the water flow. The car is currently being put back together.

 

[59tbirddavid]

I wanted to update and use a/c on my car. Replace copper / brass radiator with aluminum rad. Added fan shroud and 6 blade fan. These changes made a/c use on my car possible. Old cars are not for the faint, persevere!

 

[Ward 57]

I just want to ad that my car is close to original, may have updated the water pump but will never go to extremes to correct a minor issue. But have what you may...

 

[Rogvh]

I thought my '57 was overheating several years ago when it would peg and my stomach would tie-up-in-knots. On one weekend trip the engine was missing like it wasn't getting gas, yet the gauge showed a quarter tank. Just made it into a gas station and it took nearly twenty gallons. I put one of those stick-on temperature readers from CASCO on the radiator tank and it read a max temp that was okay (don't remember the number). Thought it was the instrument regulator but changing didn't do anything. Talking to Tom Sestak (sp.) he said maybe the gauges were off (odd since both were connected to the regulator). At any rate he restored both gauges and my problem went away. I should have realized that the radiator wasn't steaming over. I'm in the camp that believes under 190 degrees is a recipe for condensation/sludging the engine.

 

[Ward 57]

It's interesting, last summer in the heat 85Deg+it would run up past the white line and even bought the large opening thermostat but not installed.
After a complete tune up, plugs, wires, points & condenser coil and new resistor (old one failed and took me forever to figure out ) timing & carb adjustment, new exhaust and eliminated the heat riser and now at 85Deg it runs at 4/5ths of the top end of the white line. My engine seems to really like it

 

[DiIanni]

Does anyone know that if I install a 6 blade fan engine fan, that the engine will run cooler.
Also, what temp thermostat should I install if any at all?

 

[zeroroadkill]

I installed a 6 blade fan and 180° thermostat. Can’t hurt. I also installed the modified water pump spacer, cleaned the casting slag and the high output water pump, and made sure the fan was positioned correctly in the shroud. After chasing my overheating ghost I measured the water temp with a digital thermometer at the manifold and radiator tank & hose and found it to be below 190°.

I was wondering with the smaller water pump pulley, which would increase the water pump RPMs, is it possible it could increase the possibility of cavitation in the water pump? Assuming there was air in the system? I always burp the system when checking the fluid level but since I don’t have a recovery tank there’s always one inch of air on top of the radiator tank. ?

 

[Ward 57]

I was wondering with the smaller water pump pulley, which would increase the water pump RPMs, is it possible it could increase the possibility of cavitation in the water pump? Assuming there was air in the system? I always burp the system when checking the fluid level but since I don’t have a recovery tank there’s always one inch of air on top of the radiator tank. ?

As it should be. The system needs room for expansion. With the coolant system as designed I've never seen any need to 'burp' it unlike many newer cars.

 

[zeroroadkill]

I do it out of habit, but I can see it's not necessary with these older cars and cooling systems.

 

[Tom Piantanida]

Had our 57 overheat a few times when we were in Vegas, did a lot of research and just got in the Casco high output waterpump (20% cooler) and large opening 170 degree thermostat, steel 6 bladed fan blade and I also found a re-engineered Chris Ames A-432 waterpump spacer (google it), it's $$ but everything I read about it is very good, just waiting them them to contact me on it.

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I replaced the waterpump, spacer, thermostat, and the fan with the parts you recommended. My 1957 runs much cooler now; but I have a new problem: my 13# radiator cap seems to be overwhelmed by the the water pressure with these new parts installed. I thought it might be a defective radiator cap, but a new cap hasn't solved the problem. The symptoms are that I keep having to add coolant to the radiator, and there is some very small amount of coolant on the outside of the radiator and adjacent to the cap. I checked the obvious reasons tor coolant loss: no water leak in the radiator or heater core, no water in the oil, no water leaking into the transmission from the bottom tank in the radiator. I did read a report of another Y block high volume water pump raising block pressure. Have any of you experienced this?

 

[Critterpainer]

Do you have a coolant recovery tank on your car? If not, then as the coolant heats up it will expand and push a bit out. If you don't top off the coolant, then it will seek its own level and stay at that level. My 55 coolant level is about an inch below the radiator neck. Any fuller and it will piddle on the ground to reach that level.

 

[Brax]

190F to 200F a good engine operating efficiency temp. You really do not want to be below 180F. So task 1 is to verify the actual, compared to the gauge. Anti-freeze 50 50 makes boil point 223..(before any pressure cap change, and 70-30 to 235F..before. A pressure cap adds 3 degrees for each 1 psi. The job of a thermostat is to keep the coolant at the thermostat design specification..it opens and closes to do that. The cooling system is designed for a flow rate that allows time in the radiator for the coolant to be cooled, thus too fast a flow does not mean better cooling, the coolant returns to the engine hotter, and gets hotter again and so on. First checks: verify the temp, flush radiator with a good cleaner following directions, check that thermostat works (the old pot of heating water test), check that the thermostat is installed in the proper direction (very often is in backwards). Is the fan shroud in place. It is important. Start with fresh 50 50 anti freeze, if that is enough for your coldest winter (-35F I hope that does it). Fine to add some coolant enhancer product if needed later. So, with optimal operating temp of 190 to 200, and your actual temp verified, and a boil point of well over 223 (pressure cap adding 3 deg F for each 1 psi, so say a 13psi cap = 39F to the 223F. (altitude does not matter with a closed radiator cap) SO, , see how it is. Drive at 190 to 210 F no worries. Still plenty of margin. If still too high, then get into a new radiator( if too much crud and scale for strong cleaner to remove) and or water pump--vanes can corrode. Before a new radiator install, the engine coolant passages MUST be cleaned as much as possible..do flushes and cleaning PRIOR to a new radiator, and even then, put a filter sock in the inlet to radiator hose for a while. By the way..a cooler temp thermostat does NOTHING to help with overheating: it will only lower the temp on an engine that runs cold to begin with. A high flow stat may allow to fast a flow for time for coolant to cool thru the radiator, or it may or may not help--if the radiator and engine coolant passages are so clogged that the flow is too slow: depends.
Nick

Not sure where you are coming up with the temp numbers , these cars were designed to run a 160 degree thermostat in summer and 180 degree in colder months. These cars are not designed to run at 190 to 210 degrees, if I remember correctly the radiator cap is 7-9 lbs . All those modifications to fix what isn’t broken seems a waste of money. Ford didn’t design these cars to overheat. I drove my 55 in 100 degree heat with zero problems all stock with correct thermostat and would recommend everyone try this first

 

[dadspony]

I have a 1957 312 auto that after 20 minutes of running (in mixed traffic) pegs the meter. New stat, radiator flush,re-built engine,etc. Hand-held thermo shows 197 d, 189 at the radiator. What to do?

Mine did that as well and I found the dwell and timing was way off so engine was fighting itself. I have same year 'bird and engine.