63 Thunderbird turn signal issues

[daner83]

Hi
I have a 1963 Thunderbird. I have two weird issues first the rear blinkers don’t work. The brake lights and running lights work on the back but not the blinkers. I checked the blinker relay behind the fuel and temp gauge and it appears to be working. Also when I put on the right blinker the indicator light on the the left lights up as well as the left side blinker. They are reversed somehow. I also replaced the fuses and checked the rear bulbs. Any help or ideas would be great!! Thank you

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[Pink T-Bird]

So if I understand your issue: 1. if you have a turn signal on and hit the brake pedal, both brake lights, right and left are on like no signal is called for? Or 2. does the brake light on the side you have blinking in front go dark in back?
3. When the right blinker is working the left blinker is also working including the dash indicator, front and back and dash, or 4. just front and dash on, but not blinking?

1 & 3 or 1 & 4 bad ground at one of the signal bulbs most likely
2 & 4 bad turn signal switch most likely

possible but unusual, wires frayed/shorting together in a tilt steering column

Any work done recently on the front or rear lights? dash?

 

[Hadderz]

It sounds like the rear light buckets have lost the earth (ground) connection. Mine did the same recently, I had to attach a wire directly to the lamp holders to make them work - they became brighter too!

 

[daner83]

So if I understand your issue: 1. if you have a turn signal on and hit the brake pedal, both brake lights, right and left are on like no signal is called for? Or 2. does the brake light on the side you have blinking in front go dark in back?
3. When the right blinker is working the left blinker is also working including the dash indicator, front and back and dash, or 4. just front and dash on, but not blinking?

1 & 3 or 1 & 4 bad ground at one of the signal bulbs most likely
2 & 4 bad turn signal switch most likely

possible but unusual, wires frayed/shorting together in a tilt steering column

Any work done recently on the front or rear lights? dash?

Hi
I will try to explain it better I realized my explanation was confusing.
The 2 front blinkers work. The odd thing is when you push the turn signal on, whether right or left it turns on the opposite side you turned on. So I turn on what is supposed to be the right-hand blinker and on the dash the left blinker indicator lights up and the left blinker in the front are blinking. So the 2 front blinkers work just they are working in the opposite way they are supposed to.

the rear blinkers just don’t work at all. All the other lights in the rear work such as the brake lights and running lights but when you turn on the blinkers again the front work in the opposite way but the rear ones don't do anything as far as blinking. I have the flasher our and it sounds as it is working but I ordered a new one to be safe. It’s very odd.
thanks for helping me out!

It sounds like the rear light buckets have lost the earth (ground) connection. Mine did the same recently, I had to attach a wire directly to the lamp holders to make them work - they became brighter too!

They are a little dim. How would I go about that? What do I connect them to or what part of the lights? I was trying to find a way to get to the back of the lights but with the cardboard and carpet it doesn’t seem like there is a way to get to them without messing those things up.
thanks for the help!!

 

[Pink T-Bird]

The 2 front blinkers work. The odd thing is when you push the turn signal on, whether right or left it turns on the opposite side you turned on. So I turn on what is supposed to be the right-hand blinker and on the dash the left blinker indicator lights up and the left blinker in the front are blinking. So the 2 front blinkers work just they are working in the opposite way they are supposed to.

the rear blinkers just don’t work at all. All the other lights in the rear work such as the brake lights and running lights but when you turn on the blinkers again the front work in the opposite way but the rear ones don't do anything as far as blinking. I have the flasher our and it sounds as it is working but I ordered a new one to be safe.

Ok, that's different than I pictured it and different than anything I've ever encountered. I would not expect a new flasher can to help this as it interrupts the circuit to the turn signal switch not the power from the switch to the right or left side. The way the switch is typically constructed an intact swtich cannot possibly cross right to left to left to right...

So what follows is an educated guess.
I am presuming as a '63 it does not have an emergency 4 way flasher as I don't think those showed up until 65 or 66. (I had to add an aftermarket 4 way to my '63 Mercury Comet since it is a daily driver).

No 4 way removes a level of difficulty on what can go wrong. I'm coming back to the turn signal switch or worn wiring in the steering column. Although now it almost sounds like someone is pulling a practical joke on you and got under your dash and swapped some connectors around at the steering column.

The wiring activating the opposite dash indicator and front signal means the cross up for that issue is happening at the switch or column wiring. The fact that it is flashing indicates power is coming from the right place, getting to the switch, and the flasher is good, and the front signal and dash indicator apparently have a proper ground. Power is not getting to the rear lights from the switch OR the rear lights have no ground connection is the next point to address, BUT you indicate the brake lights work. Even when a signal is flashing up front, the brake lights work on both sides in the back, right? The turn signal switch SHOULD interrupt the power to the brake lights from the brake switch on each side so the flasher can supply power and blink the lights. SO the turn signal switch is most likely your issue. But this a failure mode I have never seen before.

A longshot, but possible, is that you somehow lost ground to all the taillights, but if the brake lights work properly that rules against that.

There was no recent work under the dash or in the trunk?

Where are you located? maybe a member can recommend an electrically savvy shop that can take a look?

 

[Pink T-Bird]

Uh, uh, uh, one more thing. Have you had someone watch the rear lights with the running lights on and then hit the brakes? what happens out back and on the dash and the front blinkers? With the running lights on, and your foot on the brakes, activate the turn signals. What happens? If it is a ground issue you will find interesting things with these 2 tests. Please report back.

 

[Hadderz]

Hi
I will try to explain it better I realized my explanation was confusing.
The 2 front blinkers work. The odd thing is when you push the turn signal on, whether right or left it turns on the opposite side you turned on. So I turn on what is supposed to be the right-hand blinker and on the dash the left blinker indicator lights up and the left blinker in the front are blinking. So the 2 front blinkers work just they are working in the opposite way they are supposed to.

the rear blinkers just don’t work at all. All the other lights in the rear work such as the brake lights and running lights but when you turn on the blinkers again the front work in the opposite way but the rear ones don't do anything as far as blinking. I have the flasher our and it sounds as it is working but I ordered a new one to be safe. It’s very odd.
thanks for helping me out!


They are a little dim. How would I go about that? What do I connect them to or what part of the lights? I was trying to find a way to get to the back of the lights but with the cardboard and carpet it doesn’t seem like there is a way to get to them without messing those things up.
thanks for the help!!

Hi
to remove the light buckets is a major job as the rear bumper has to come off but.... the first test I would do is this:
Remove the rear light lens so it exposes the bulb, get a piece of wire and attach it to the vehicle body to provide you with a good ground connection. The other end, bare the end of the wire and hold or wedge it against the side of the bulb and its holder. This will provide the ground (earth connection) I think you've lost - you may need to do this both sides. If it is and cures the problem, what I did was to remove the bulb and file the top edge where it is crimped into the bucket. Once cleaned I soldered a wire to it and drilled a small hole through the bucket close to this edge and then another hole so it could pass into the boot and then attached a ring terminal and a self tapping screw into the body. What I don't understand is why an earth connection was ever-present, it seems to of worked by earthing through the alloy bucket but mine, the alloy didn't conduct - very strange!

 

[daner83]

So if I understand your issue: 1. if you have a turn signal on and hit the brake pedal, both brake lights, right and left are on like no signal is called for? Or 2. does the brake light on the side you have blinking in front go dark in back?
3. When the right blinker is working the left blinker is also working including the dash indicator, front and back and dash, or 4. just front and dash on, but not blinking?

1 & 3 or 1 & 4 bad ground at one of the signal bulbs most likely
2 & 4 bad turn signal switch most likely

possible but unusual, wires frayed/shorting together in a tilt steering column

Any work done recently on the front or rear lights? dash?

Ok so I discovered the issue is in the wiring harness under the dash. I can get all the turn signals to work except either the r hand side front or rear. It’s strange one wire can be plugged in to the harness and that one wire will either turn on the right side rear or front blinker but not both. The driver side I have 2 wires that I plug in and they work fine. There are 2 extra wires but when I plug them in they don’t do anything. Also when I have the turn signals working I have a split red wire that I have to unplug from the blinker harness and when I do that the break lights don’t work. It’s very odd and confusing.
I live in Altamonte Springs FL. So if anyone can recommend a good place to help me fix this I would really appreciate it. I can’t drive it since the lights don’t work properly so I would need someone to come to my garage to fix it.
thanks again for all the help

 

[Pink T-Bird]

If you can make it work from under the dash, I'd be inclined to condemn the turn signal switch in the column. Could also be the wiring to the switch at the base of the column that has failed from 55+ years of tilt away column use fatiguing the wires and wearing away the insulation. I would expect the switch to come with new wire leads anyway.

 

[Danny]

Looks like you have wires going to places unknown or not connected at all... I live not far from Altamonte Springs, FL. I have an early '62 and can come by for you to look at the wiring if you think that would help. Let me know and we can set up a visit.