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1957 transmission fluid type

  • Thread starter Thread starter CharlieWilmot
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CharlieWilmot

CharlieWilmot

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1957
Hello everyone, my name is Charlie in San Diego California. Have a transmission fluid question. I recall always using type F transmission fluid, I was watching some videos on YouTube saying that’s not the correct fluid. What say you?

Also, I seem to remember the car should be level. Idling in neutral when checking fluid level, is that correct?

Thanks!

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I had read about 2 years ago. It is Type A and not available anymore and that Dexron lll is the closest to the Type A and is preferred…there must be a post here on the forum about it
 
The Thunderbird Restoration and Details Manual recommends Dexron. Type F will give firmer shifts but shorter lifespan, unless you change the fluid more frequently.
 
Hello everyone, my name is Charlie in San Diego California. Have a transmission fluid question. I recall always using type F transmission fluid, I was watching some videos on YouTube saying that’s not the correct fluid. What say you?

Also, I seem to remember the car should be level. Idling in neutral when checking fluid level, is that correct?

Thanks!
Yes. Car level, idling and warmed up to operating temperature, and either neutral or park for Ford products. Some others, like Mopars I believe, were neutral only.
 
I’m changing my trans filter, gasket and fluid. Been using Type F for years, but your previous recommendations suggest Type A or Dexron III. I see Dexron VI readily available Can’t find Type A, Dexron 3 is difficult to find. Been reading a lot and also seem to remember advice NOT TO USE full synthetic fluids. So what type do you folks recommend? What quantity should I buy for this job? Yes or no with synthetic? Thanks!
 
I’m changing my trans filter, gasket and fluid. Been using Type F for years, but your previous recommendations suggest Type A or Dexron III. I see Dexron VI readily available Can’t find Type A, Dexron 3 is difficult to find. Been reading a lot and also seem to remember advice NOT TO USE full synthetic fluids. So what type do you folks recommend? What quantity should I buy for this job? Yes or no with synthetic? Thanks!

I see stuff called Dex/Mer a lot now days. There was very little difference between the Dex's and the Mercon's and many companies formulated ATFs that met both specs, or close enough not to matter. There are a couple of the newer versions of both Dex and Mercon which you should not use but I don't recall the exact versions. As with oils, they have made the newer transmission fluids much lower viscosity to get an extra 0.06 mpg. I would stay away from anything higher than the Dexron III. I don't think synthetic would be a problem but not really needed. If you have been using Type F in yours and it's been operating to your satisfaction and you are just doing fluid and filter change you can use F again. There's nothing wrong with modern F fluids, they have different friction properties which can be an issue sometimes but not always. Other than the friction properties, there's not much difference between the F and the Dex/Merc
 
Hello everyone, my name is Charlie in San Diego California. Have a transmission fluid question. I recall always using type F transmission fluid, I was watching some videos on YouTube saying that’s not the correct fluid. What say you?

Also, I seem to remember the car should be level. Idling in neutral when checking fluid level, is that correct?

Thanks!
Just buy the he correct type A fluid it is available and works the best.
 
Just buy the he correct type A fluid it is available and works the best.
Brax, I’ve searched but have been unable to find Type A. Any suggestions where to buy it are welcome.
 
I have seen Type A for sale but I would not buy it. Type A was an early spec fluid and frankly, it was crap once they had to stop using whale oil, little more than 10 weight motor oil from some stuff I've read. Because of that I'd be worried that anyone selling Type A that meets the old Type A spec is selling a low-quality product that only meets the 1950's spec. The other thing that is entirely possible is that they are buying plain jane Dex/Merc at $8 a bottle, relabeling it as Type A, and reselling it at $15 a bottle. Most of the people who have had their fordomatic rebuilt have been told by the rebuilder to use Dex/Merc in it.
 
Type F transmission fluid was the replacement for type A transmission fluid. Since type F transmission fluid is readily available that is the transmission I use in my 1955 Thunderbird.

Below is an article that explains the evolution automatic transmission fluids.

Tech 101: Automatic transmission fluid, part one—American manufacturers
Just as vehicle manufacturer recommendations for engine oil are changing at an everincreasing pace, so are requirements for the ever-widening range of automatic transmission fluids. With the advent of overdrive transmissions and four-, five-, six- or more speed units being employed in today’s cars, it is important to use the correct fluid, changed at recommended intervals, to ensure that your transmission will last as long as your engine and that your vehicle’s drivetrain warranty remains in effect.

Now that 10W30 and 10W40 engine oils are considered antiquated by most standards, ATF basic fluids such as Dexron and Ford Type F are also falling by the wayside as the old standbys. Many manufacturers are still producing their own transmissions, but they are getting their assembled transmissions from other sources for certain models and engine sizes. This means that there is not one standard fluid for GM, or Ford, or Chrysler any longer. Imported car automatics can produce even more problems, because of their requirements for both viscosity and oxidation inhibitors.

When automatic transmissions first appeared in standard production models in the early 1950s, they used common engine or gear oil. As the transmissions themselves were refined, they began using Type A fluid in the late 1950s. Type A evolved into Type A Suffix A, and then into Dexron; however, each of these iterations relied on a sperm whale oil additive to act as a friction modifier, at least until the use of whale oil was outlawed in the early 1970s.

Dexron II became the original-equipment transmission oil in 1972, but the manufacturer encountered problems with corrosion to the solder joints in the transmission oil cooler and added a corrosion inhibitor in 1975; the new fluid was called Dexron II-D. This was later reformulated to Dexron II-E when another additive was included to reduce water absorption. All GM vehicles used Dexron II-E, and it supersedes any previous recommendations for Type A, Type A Suffix A and any of the previous Dexron requirements.

Dexron III became the new GM standard in 1993, and was used in all cars and light trucks (except Saturn) until 2006. It was obsoleted in favor of Dexron III-H. Also in 2006, GM first introduced Dexron VI, which is a synthetic blend-based fluid and was used in all six-speed transmissions but can be retrofitted to any previous fluid specifications and can be mixed with the older mineral-based fluids.

Dexron VI is also found in BMWs that came with the GM six-speed transmissions. It is not recommended for Pontiac Vibe, Chevrolet Aveo or Saturn Ion transmissions, as these were not produced by General Motors. Neither is it recommended for any cars equipped with continuously variable transmissions, commonly known as CVTs.

transmission-fluids.jpg
Ford first produced its own transmission fluid formulation in 1967, referred to as Type F or Type FA. The name comes from Ford’s specification number for the fluid, ESW M2C33-F. This fluid was used in all Ford transmissions until 1977 and most Ford transmissions until 1980.

The development of the C5 transmission in 1981 brought a new specification called Type H, named after the specification ESP M2C166-H. About the same time, Ford C6 transmissions upgraded to a new formulation, ESW M2C138-CJ or Type CJ. These transmissions cannot use Type F/FA; however, Dexron II could be substituted. Type H eventually was reformulated and received anti-shudder additives. It was then renamed Mercon, and it was an acceptable retrofit for both Type H and Type CJ and became the new Ford standard fluid from 1987-2007.

Mercon V was introduced in 2008 and supersedes any requirements for H, CJ or Mercon. It does not replace Type F or Type FA, but is often marketed in retail establishments now as Dexron III/Mercon V and takes the place of any previous non-Type F/FA requirements.

Mercon SP was prevalent in 2005-2007 six-speed automatics and has additional additives over Mercon V. SP can be substituted in any Mercon V recommendation. Ford also produced its own Mercon CVT fluid from 2005-2007; however, all aftermarket CVT-specific fluids meet the Ford requirement, no matter who the manufacturer.

The year 2008 saw the release of Mercon LV, a synthetic-based fluid that is not compatible with any previous Mercon specifications. Transmissions requiring LV include the rear-wheel-drive Ford 5R110 Torque Shift and 4R75/WE transmissions, as well as the front-wheel-drive 4F27E, AW ECVT, 6F50/55N and the 6F35N.

Early Chrysler transmissions also used Type A fluid until the introduction of Dexron, and continued to use Dexron II and III in rear-wheel-drive transmissions until 1997. AMC also used the Chrysler TorqueFlite (Torque Command) transmissions throughout the 1960s and 1970s, so AMC’s fluid requirements were the same as the early Chryslers.

In 1997, ATF+2 was introduced with additional additives for three-speed automatics and ATF+3 was released for four-speed automatics. By 1998, both were gone in favor of the new synthetic-based ATF+4. This synthetic fluid can be retrofitted into any previous Chrysler transmission, but it cannot be mixed with Dexron or Mercon fluids; a complete change would be necessary, including a system flush and draining of the torque converter.

ATF+4 was used in all 1998 and newer Chryslers, except minivans with the 41TE/AE transmissions until 2002, when Chrysler ATF+5 synthetic fluid was released.

You can see how confusing it gets. We just mentioned 21 different fluids for American cars alone. There are at least a dozen additional specifications for European and Japanese vehicles, which we will discuss next week. Meanwhile, we strongly recommend that you check your transmission dipstick or the vehicle owner’s manual to see which of these 21 specifications your car requires. Check with your local dealership’s service department, if you have to, and do not stray from their recommendation, or its acceptable equivalent, to be sure your automatic transmission is operating at peak efficiency an
 
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Brax, I’ve searched but have been unable to find Type A. Any suggestions where to buy it are welcome.
Use Dex type if you want type F has no friction modifier hence the firmer shifts but at the price extra wear on transmision parts type A is mineral based with additional friction modifiers. Type F is only for transmissions designed for it and the materials used. It’s your car use what you want.

Type F transmission fluid was the replacement for type A transmission fluid. Since type F transmission fluid is readily available that is the transmission I use in my 1955 Thunderbird.

Below is an article that explains the evolution automatic transmission fluids.

Tech 101: Automatic transmission fluid, part one—American manufacturers
Just as vehicle manufacturer recommendations for engine oil are changing at an everincreasing pace, so are requirements for the ever-widening range of automatic transmission fluids. With the advent of overdrive transmissions and four-, five-, six- or more speed units being employed in today’s cars, it is important to use the correct fluid, changed at recommended intervals, to ensure that your transmission will last as long as your engine and that your vehicle’s drivetrain warranty remains in effect.

Now that 10W30 and 10W40 engine oils are considered antiquated by most standards, ATF basic fluids such as Dexron and Ford Type F are also falling by the wayside as the old standbys. Many manufacturers are still producing their own transmissions, but they are getting their assembled transmissions from other sources for certain models and engine sizes. This means that there is not one standard fluid for GM, or Ford, or Chrysler any longer. Imported car automatics can produce even more problems, because of their requirements for both viscosity and oxidation inhibitors.

When automatic transmissions first appeared in standard production models in the early 1950s, they used common engine or gear oil. As the transmissions themselves were refined, they began using Type A fluid in the late 1950s. Type A evolved into Type A Suffix A, and then into Dexron; however, each of these iterations relied on a sperm whale oil additive to act as a friction modifier, at least until the use of whale oil was outlawed in the early 1970s.

Dexron II became the original-equipment transmission oil in 1972, but the manufacturer encountered problems with corrosion to the solder joints in the transmission oil cooler and added a corrosion inhibitor in 1975; the new fluid was called Dexron II-D. This was later reformulated to Dexron II-E when another additive was included to reduce water absorption. All GM vehicles used Dexron II-E, and it supersedes any previous recommendations for Type A, Type A Suffix A and any of the previous Dexron requirements.

Dexron III became the new GM standard in 1993, and was used in all cars and light trucks (except Saturn) until 2006. It was obsoleted in favor of Dexron III-H. Also in 2006, GM first introduced Dexron VI, which is a synthetic blend-based fluid and was used in all six-speed transmissions but can be retrofitted to any previous fluid specifications and can be mixed with the older mineral-based fluids.

Dexron VI is also found in BMWs that came with the GM six-speed transmissions. It is not recommended for Pontiac Vibe, Chevrolet Aveo or Saturn Ion transmissions, as these were not produced by General Motors. Neither is it recommended for any cars equipped with continuously variable transmissions, commonly known as CVTs.

View attachment 32193
Ford first produced its own transmission fluid formulation in 1967, referred to as Type F or Type FA. The name comes from Ford’s specification number for the fluid, ESW M2C33-F. This fluid was used in all Ford transmissions until 1977 and most Ford transmissions until 1980.

The development of the C5 transmission in 1981 brought a new specification called Type H, named after the specification ESP M2C166-H. About the same time, Ford C6 transmissions upgraded to a new formulation, ESW M2C138-CJ or Type CJ. These transmissions cannot use Type F/FA; however, Dexron II could be substituted. Type H eventually was reformulated and received anti-shudder additives. It was then renamed Mercon, and it was an acceptable retrofit for both Type H and Type CJ and became the new Ford standard fluid from 1987-2007.

Mercon V was introduced in 2008 and supersedes any requirements for H, CJ or Mercon. It does not replace Type F or Type FA, but is often marketed in retail establishments now as Dexron III/Mercon V and takes the place of any previous non-Type F/FA requirements.

Mercon SP was prevalent in 2005-2007 six-speed automatics and has additional additives over Mercon V. SP can be substituted in any Mercon V recommendation. Ford also produced its own Mercon CVT fluid from 2005-2007; however, all aftermarket CVT-specific fluids meet the Ford requirement, no matter who the manufacturer.

The year 2008 saw the release of Mercon LV, a synthetic-based fluid that is not compatible with any previous Mercon specifications. Transmissions requiring LV include the rear-wheel-drive Ford 5R110 Torque Shift and 4R75/WE transmissions, as well as the front-wheel-drive 4F27E, AW ECVT, 6F50/55N and the 6F35N.

Early Chrysler transmissions also used Type A fluid until the introduction of Dexron, and continued to use Dexron II and III in rear-wheel-drive transmissions until 1997. AMC also used the Chrysler TorqueFlite (Torque Command) transmissions throughout the 1960s and 1970s, so AMC’s fluid requirements were the same as the early Chryslers.

In 1997, ATF+2 was introduced with additional additives for three-speed automatics and ATF+3 was released for four-speed automatics. By 1998, both were gone in favor of the new synthetic-based ATF+4. This synthetic fluid can be retrofitted into any previous Chrysler transmission, but it cannot be mixed with Dexron or Mercon fluids; a complete change would be necessary, including a system flush and draining of the torque converter.

ATF+4 was used in all 1998 and newer Chryslers, except minivans with the 41TE/AE transmissions until 2002, when Chrysler ATF+5 synthetic fluid was released.

You can see how confusing it gets. We just mentioned 21 different fluids for American cars alone. There are at least a dozen additional specifications for European and Japanese vehicles, which we will discuss next week. Meanwhile, we strongly recommend that you check your transmission dipstick or the vehicle owner’s manual to see which of these 21 specifications your car requires. Check with your local dealership’s service department, if you have to, and do not stray from their recommendation, or its acceptable equivalent, to be sure your automatic transmission is operating at peak efficiency an
Nowhere does it say type F was a replacement for A, as for whale oil that was used in posi rear ends but was replaced when whale oil were banned. Only types A or Dexron 1,2 or 3 are good to go imho if you don’t drive much type F will work but it is not compatible with band and clutch friction requirements hense the shorter transmission life.
 
Type F transmission fluid was the replacement for type A transmission fluid. Since type F transmission fluid is readily available that is the transmission I use in my 1955 Thunderbird.

Below is an article that explains the evolution automatic transmission fluids.

Tech 101: Automatic transmission fluid, part one—American manufacturers
Just as vehicle manufacturer recommendations for engine oil are changing at an everincreasing pace, so are requirements for the ever-widening range of automatic transmission fluids. With the advent of overdrive transmissions and four-, five-, six- or more speed units being employed in today’s cars, it is important to use the correct fluid, changed at recommended intervals, to ensure that your transmission will last as long as your engine and that your vehicle’s drivetrain warranty remains in effect.

Now that 10W30 and 10W40 engine oils are considered antiquated by most standards, ATF basic fluids such as Dexron and Ford Type F are also falling by the wayside as the old standbys. Many manufacturers are still producing their own transmissions, but they are getting their assembled transmissions from other sources for certain models and engine sizes. This means that there is not one standard fluid for GM, or Ford, or Chrysler any longer. Imported car automatics can produce even more problems, because of their requirements for both viscosity and oxidation inhibitors.

When automatic transmissions first appeared in standard production models in the early 1950s, they used common engine or gear oil. As the transmissions themselves were refined, they began using Type A fluid in the late 1950s. Type A evolved into Type A Suffix A, and then into Dexron; however, each of these iterations relied on a sperm whale oil additive to act as a friction modifier, at least until the use of whale oil was outlawed in the early 1970s.

Dexron II became the original-equipment transmission oil in 1972, but the manufacturer encountered problems with corrosion to the solder joints in the transmission oil cooler and added a corrosion inhibitor in 1975; the new fluid was called Dexron II-D. This was later reformulated to Dexron II-E when another additive was included to reduce water absorption. All GM vehicles used Dexron II-E, and it supersedes any previous recommendations for Type A, Type A Suffix A and any of the previous Dexron requirements.

Dexron III became the new GM standard in 1993, and was used in all cars and light trucks (except Saturn) until 2006. It was obsoleted in favor of Dexron III-H. Also in 2006, GM first introduced Dexron VI, which is a synthetic blend-based fluid and was used in all six-speed transmissions but can be retrofitted to any previous fluid specifications and can be mixed with the older mineral-based fluids.

Dexron VI is also found in BMWs that came with the GM six-speed transmissions. It is not recommended for Pontiac Vibe, Chevrolet Aveo or Saturn Ion transmissions, as these were not produced by General Motors. Neither is it recommended for any cars equipped with continuously variable transmissions, commonly known as CVTs.

View attachment 32193
Ford first produced its own transmission fluid formulation in 1967, referred to as Type F or Type FA. The name comes from Ford’s specification number for the fluid, ESW M2C33-F. This fluid was used in all Ford transmissions until 1977 and most Ford transmissions until 1980.

The development of the C5 transmission in 1981 brought a new specification called Type H, named after the specification ESP M2C166-H. About the same time, Ford C6 transmissions upgraded to a new formulation, ESW M2C138-CJ or Type CJ. These transmissions cannot use Type F/FA; however, Dexron II could be substituted. Type H eventually was reformulated and received anti-shudder additives. It was then renamed Mercon, and it was an acceptable retrofit for both Type H and Type CJ and became the new Ford standard fluid from 1987-2007.

Mercon V was introduced in 2008 and supersedes any requirements for H, CJ or Mercon. It does not replace Type F or Type FA, but is often marketed in retail establishments now as Dexron III/Mercon V and takes the place of any previous non-Type F/FA requirements.

Mercon SP was prevalent in 2005-2007 six-speed automatics and has additional additives over Mercon V. SP can be substituted in any Mercon V recommendation. Ford also produced its own Mercon CVT fluid from 2005-2007; however, all aftermarket CVT-specific fluids meet the Ford requirement, no matter who the manufacturer.

The year 2008 saw the release of Mercon LV, a synthetic-based fluid that is not compatible with any previous Mercon specifications. Transmissions requiring LV include the rear-wheel-drive Ford 5R110 Torque Shift and 4R75/WE transmissions, as well as the front-wheel-drive 4F27E, AW ECVT, 6F50/55N and the 6F35N.

Early Chrysler transmissions also used Type A fluid until the introduction of Dexron, and continued to use Dexron II and III in rear-wheel-drive transmissions until 1997. AMC also used the Chrysler TorqueFlite (Torque Command) transmissions throughout the 1960s and 1970s, so AMC’s fluid requirements were the same as the early Chryslers.

In 1997, ATF+2 was introduced with additional additives for three-speed automatics and ATF+3 was released for four-speed automatics. By 1998, both were gone in favor of the new synthetic-based ATF+4. This synthetic fluid can be retrofitted into any previous Chrysler transmission, but it cannot be mixed with Dexron or Mercon fluids; a complete change would be necessary, including a system flush and draining of the torque converter.

ATF+4 was used in all 1998 and newer Chryslers, except minivans with the 41TE/AE transmissions until 2002, when Chrysler ATF+5 synthetic fluid was released.

You can see how confusing it gets. We just mentioned 21 different fluids for American cars alone. There are at least a dozen additional specifications for European and Japanese vehicles, which we will discuss next week. Meanwhile, we strongly recommend that you check your transmission dipstick or the vehicle owner’s manual to see which of these 21 specifications your car requires. Check with your local dealership’s service department, if you have to, and do not stray from their recommendation, or its acceptable equivalent, to be sure your automatic transmission is operating at peak efficiency an

Doug, Type F was not the replacement for Type A and the article does not say it was, it says the opposite. Type F was an oddball used in a particular design of Ford transmission, just about everything else used Type A and its subsequent formulations leading to Dex/Merc. I like to feel a transmission shift, but the holy grail of automakers and transmission designers has always been to make the shifts so smooth no one can tell the transmission shifted. Because of the "grabiness" of Type F it went extinct.
 
Attached is an article from the March/April EarlyBird magazine which states that the replacement transmission fluid for the original type "A" fluid is type "F". Below is an article from the September/October EarlyBird magazine which mentions what could happens when you use Dexron in an older Ford transmission.

I'm not an expert on transmission fluid, but I have overhauled a Ford-O-Matic transmission. Since type "F" transmission fluid is available I'm going to continue using it.

doug7740
1955 Thunderbird Blue

Automatic Transmission Fluid Part-1.JPG
 

Attachments

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Attached is an article from the March/April EarlyBird magazine which states that the replacement transmission fluid for the original type "A" fluid is type "F". Below is an article from the September/October EarlyBird magazine which mentions what could happens when you use Dexron in an older Ford transmission.

I'm not an expert on transmission fluid, but I have overhauled a Ford-O-Matic transmission. Since type "F" transmission fluid is available I'm going to continue using it.

doug7740
1955 Thunderbird Blue

View attachment 32195

It doesn't state that, it mistakenly implies it and creates confusion on this issue. The problem with that article is that it ignores all the transmissions Ford made prior to when it made the ones that used Type F in the 60's/70's. It refers to Type F as being for pre-78 transmissions which is only half true. There are many pre-78 transmissions that used Type F, but the article ignores the other pre-78 transmissions which did not use Type F but used Type A, such as the original Fordomatics and their derivatives dating from the early 50's and up to the mid 60's. Type A is not equivalent to Type F, it is equivalent to Dex/Merc. Using Type F isn't likely to be a problem, but it would change the shift characteristics. Some people might prefer it, many will not notice the difference, the rest will shrug their shoulders. I'd be more worried about putting Dex/Merc in a transmission that needed type F then the opposite.
 
Hello everyone, my name is Charlie in San Diego California. Have a transmission fluid question. I recall always using type F transmission fluid, I was watching some videos on YouTube saying that’s not the correct fluid. What say you?

Also, I seem to remember the car should be level. Idling in neutral when checking fluid level, is that correct?

Thanks!
Type f does not absorb water. Dextron does, so it shifts more smoothly. Some older GM cars with sloppy shifting put in type f, and it cured the problem-sometimes. Other times the shifts were neck snapping.
 
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