1957 E, cooling system rebuild advise

[Rbyrd]

312 matching numbers E Code engine is rebuilt I'm on the cooling stage now, radiator is original with date stamp and need lots of work. What do I do with that? I see numerous suggestions on enhancing cooling, casco performance water pump(not sensitive to the stock rebuild) casco impeller replacement in existing housing, spacer at pump for increased flow, smaller pulley for increased RPM, lower shroud with full cover on radiator, wetter water additive. What are the recommended upgrades? Engine is out and everything is apart, now is the time. Thanks for offering yiur suggestions.

Rick

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[doug7740]

Since your radiator has the original date stamp on the upper tank that tells me that the radiator tanks are original to the car and you should have the radiator repaired. Early 55 radiators had a tag, this changed later in the 55 model year to a stamping in the top tank. The 56 and 57 radiators were also stamped.

I own an early 55 Thunderbird and I removed the radiator because I had been noticing a very slight leak. My intention was to replace the radiator with a heavy duty or high efficiency one until I saw the tag on the upper tank and then I decided to have the radiator repaired.





The letters/number indicated manufacturer, engineering number and date manufactured.



The radiator tag shows the engineering number AH-8005-B; the manufacturer (MC) McCord Radiator Company; L54 is the date code; L is the 12th month of 1954. Since my Thunderbird was manufactured on December 20, 1954, it appears that I have the original radiator tanks.

As many of you know, when it comes to the 55/56/57 Thunderbirds under certain driving conditions (parades & city driving) and excessive ambient temperature, the Thunderbirds were prone to run toward the hot side of normal. The primary reason for higher than normal operating temperature under these conditions was due to the design of the engine compartment. The small tight engine compartment did not allow for free air flow to carry out the hot air transferred from the radiator. Also, there is a basic design flaw in the water pump system. The T-Bird engines were the same engines used in thousands of Ford passenger cars and trucks, but the passenger cars and trucks did not have the same tendency to overheat.

The water pump for the Thunderbirds was the same as used on passenger cars and trucks. The timing cover for both the passenger car and Thunderbird were similar in design, both were built to accommodate the same water pump. The cavity for the water pump impeller was approximately 5/8" deep. The water pump impeller was approximately ½" thick. This combination worked fine in the passenger cars and trucks. When the same engine was used in a Thunderbird it was necessary to install a 1 1/8" spacer between the water pump and mounting cavity to accommodate belt alignments. When this spacer was installed the water pump impeller did not fill the extra one inch gap created by the water pump spacer. The results were a lesser volume of coolant being pumped through the engine. This lesser volume of coolant coupled with infrequent radiator flushes and coolant changes created an accumulation of solid rust around the rear cylinders of the block.

The above conditions cause overheating especially during city driving or parades. This problem can be overcome by installing a high volume water pump with an extended impeller. The extended impeller was developed by CASCO.





I also recommend that you replace the thermostat with one that has a larger opening. There are at least two different size thermostats currently available for Thunderbirds. The one with a small opening is available in 160 and 180 degree and has an opening of .887 square inches. The other thermostat which is available in 170 degree has an opening 1.724 square inches.

doug7740
1955 Thunderbird Blue

 

[SWinner]

312 matching numbers E Code engine is rebuilt I'm on the cooling stage now, radiator is original with date stamp and need lots of work. What do I do with that? I see numerous suggestions on enhancing cooling, casco performance water pump(not sensitive to the stock rebuild) casco impeller replacement in existing housing, spacer at pump for increased flow, smaller pulley for increased RPM, lower shroud with full cover on radiator, wetter water additive. What are the recommended upgrades? Engine is out and everything is apart, now is the time. Thanks for offering yiur suggestions.

Rick

Hey Rick, I would definably get your existing radiator repaired or re-cored. I used Don Hart Radiator in Waller, TX just west of Houston. They are the best shop in my area.

I chose the Flowkooler and had my original pump rebuilt with it, I also installed the Paragon spacer at https://thunderbird.us/. Both if theses links have great information on Thunderbird cooling.

I also used the larger thermostat, a full lower shroud, had the engine rebuilt including a hot tank to clean out all the gunk in both the oil passages as well as the water jacket. I run regular green antifreeze and distilled water (50/50) to prevent mineral build up. When filling the radiator, be sure to keep the upper reservoir half full to allow for expansion.

I finished the engine in March 2023 and drove the car during Houston’s 100+ degree summer without any issues, my aftermarket temp gauge maintained 180 degrees while cruising. When I got stuck behind 6 cars at the Dairy Queen, the gauge showed 205 degrees. I went to Nifte-50ees car show and nothing spilled out.

Good luck with your project,

 

[Y-8]

Eureka Moment with Engine Cooling published in the 2017 January-February issue of **************************************’s Early Bird magazine.

A must read:

Paragon Technology, Inc.

1955/56/57 Thunderbird overheating

thunderbird.us

 

[Douglemmo]

Last Fall, my 57 T-Bird's radiator sprung a small leak at the joint between the top and bottom halves of the upper tank. Iam considering replacing the radiator. By way of background I also have a Mustang that use to overheat, I replaced the stock Mustang radiator (after installing a high-volume water pump and large diameter thermostat) with an aluminum radiator and the effect on cooling was HUGE. The aluminum radiator's core is about 1.5 inches thicker that the stock Mustang radiator. Which probably explains why it cools so much better. Unfortunately, Cold case doesn't make a radiator which looks similar to the T-Bird's, but US Radiator dose. I have been told, by a radiator rebuilder, that the stock T-Bird radiator can be recored to equal or exceed the cooling capacity of an aluminum radiator. Has any one of you been told that your stock radiator can be recorded? If so, how many rows would the new core have and what is the diameter of the tubes in the new rows. Can anyone tell me how many rows we have in the stock radiator and what is the diameter of the tubes?

Also, on the subject of cooling. Some time ago, here was wind tunnel testing done on the 57-T-Bird. As a result of that testing, it was noted that the hood scoop was very effective and pressurized the engine compartment. This pressurization of the engine compartment reduced the air flow through the radiator, thus reducing its cooling ability. Their recommendation was to run with the blocking plate for the air scoop installed in summertime.

 

[Ponydoc]

When I got my E Bird, it was a mess. No 1 1/8 spacer, wrong harmonic balancer and pulley, carbs missing, etc. I had the radiator tested by an old-school shop and he said it was about a 40% flow. He flushed it and now it runs at 100%, I got the high flow pump from NPD and even the machined spacer for better flow. It's all machined inside, not like the rough cast Ford one and even the port is bigger. I got the smaller pulley and now it runs fairly well in FL summers. After an education from Daytona Parts, after they rebuilt the carbs, Tim explained the issue with gas evaporating in the carbs and building up. This eventually gums up the insides of the carbs and then they need to come back off. I installed a cut-off for the gas and run the carbs dry when it's going to sit for a while. Now it starts as soon as the gas gets back to the carbs.

 

[widgits]

This is a very interesting topic that's now come back up front just in time because I'm going thru the cooling system now.
Mine didn't overheat but went up about 3/4 on the stock gauge while in 100 degree weather going down the freeway.
After tearing the front of the engine apart and finding stock parts I'm determined to not give it a choice, now it's going crazy
with some of the things involved.

The radiator was a 2 row aluminum in decent condition but should anything happen 1000 miles from home can it be repaired? Not easily.
Maybe epoxy of a great TIG man with a welder? I purchased a new copper/brass one from US Radiator, they had several options available.
How many rows, width of tube spacing and even one that passes the coolant thru 3 times, I picked up the 4 row 3/8" tube spacing
for (OUCH !!!) $1100 of my wife's money and it took about 4 weeks to arrive.

After removing the radiator I found the previous owner or someone did a bad job of installing the air conditioner condenser and now
that's my weekend fix it job, new bracket strips with threaded holes and nice hardware. Not much choice on spacing distance to radiator
as it goes in front of the support bracket, at least it will be straight. Now its mounted crooked by 2" side to side.
Remove bumper and grill, try to do this new mounting without cracking the lines.

I tried to buy a Paragon ramped spacer ring and called but nobody ever answers the phone, after messages and e-mail still no reply.
Was wondering if Chris Ames was on vacation or possibly something worse. So after no reply I decided to machine my own.
Now I know it hurts to pay about $250 for his spacer but it took me about 20 hours to design, program and machine one.
And the 8" blank of ductile cast iron cost me about $120 with shipping from McMaster. How much is your time worth?
Thinking Chris finally tried to call me but I can't hear much with a CNC mill screaming at me.

Boiled the new 170 big thermostat and found it opened about 180 with 3 different gauges. Some here have mentioned drilling holes
in the flange for coolant flow during warmup before it opens. I also read about a plug being put in the bypass hose with a 3/16" hole
to keep more coolant going to the radiator once the thermostat has opened. Thoughts?

Great place for knowledge about this stuff if your willing to read a bit
I'll let you know how it comes out, enjoy the pics
All be well