1956 Edelbrock electric fuel pump problem

[Mr. Bill]

My mechanic said the mechanical fuel pump is not making contact with the cam shaft to make the fuel flow so he switched to an electric fuel pump ( EDELBROCK 1301) he placed this on the lower part of the front fender near the firewall. the problem is it has died twice and I am on the third Edelbrock 1301. The directions say to mount this near the fuel tank, but there does not seem to be any place to mount it below the gas tank. I am now looking at the Holley red but it will have to be mounted on the lower part of the front fender near the firewall. It will be below the gas tank. . He said he has mounted theEdelbrock 1301. on corvettes also on the front fender aways from the fuel tank and has had no problem with The pump the 1301 in my T bird runs for a while and then dies. Will I have better success with the Holley. the electrical connections are good so that is not an issue. Any ideas about this problem will be greatly appreciated, I am not enjoying this beautiful car I am afraid to drive it for fear of getting stuck. The next step after the Holley will be to replace the cam shaft, and also the timing chain and go back to the mechanical.fuel pump at a great expense.

 

[Shawnski]

Go to Casco.com and order their 12v electric fuel pump system. It’s like $148.00 and was designed to work and fit your ‘56 Thunderbird. It has the ability to pull from the fuel tank unlike most electric fuel pumps that are designed to push fuel. That’s why they want you to mount it as close as possible to the fuel tank. The Casco unit mounts on the frame near the engine compartment.

 

[doug7740]

An electric fuel pump should be installed as close to the fuel tank as possible. Electric fuel pumps are designed to push fuel and they lose efficiency when pulling fuel from the tank. I recommend installing the electrical pump in the fuel line on the out board side of the frame inside the second frame to floor brace away from any heat source. It is not necessary to drill a mount hole because a hole already exists in the brace.



What do you mean that the mechanical fuel pump is not making contact with the fuel pump eccentric cam? Did your mechanic install the wrong fuel pump with a shorter fuel pump arm?

The camshaft timing gear and the counter weight are keyed to the camshaft; the fuel pump eccentric cam is not. The fuel pump eccentric cam is held on by a bolt and washer and the bolt is torque at 35 to 45 ft-lbs. Putting a dab of blue Loctite on the bolt is a good idea.



What I trying to say is if the bolt is loose causing the fuel pump eccentric cam to spin, I wouldn’t advise running the engine using an electric fuel pump.

doug7740
1955 Thunderbird Blue

 

[55blacktie]

Sometime during the life of my 1955, someone had installed, but later removed, an electric fuel pump. The mounting bracket and wiring remained in place. The bracket was mounted to the frame rail, just forward of the gas tank.

My restoration has a long way to go, but I'm considering installing a Carter Universal Rotary Vane Electric Pump (p. 4594), which will only be used to prime the carburetor for easier starting.

 

[Ward 57]

Sometime during the life of my 1955, someone had installed, but later removed, an electric fuel pump. The mounting bracket and wiring remained in place. The bracket was mounted to the frame rail, just forward of the gas tank.

My restoration has a long way to go, but I'm considering installing a Carter Universal Rotary Vane Electric Pump (p. 4594), which will only be used to prime the carburetor for easier starting.

I prefer to let the mechanical pump do it's thing. it was recently rebuilt and has great pressure.
I crank until the oil light goes out so there is full pressure on the bearings and lifters, then I pump a couple of times to set the choke and prime. less stress on a cold engine.

 

[Critterpainer]

Wrong fuel pump for priming. A rotary electric fuel pump will not let the engine diaphragm pump draw fuel through it. You need an electric diaphragm pump for intermittent use.

 

[paul5456]

The trouble you are having with the electric fuel pump is the reason I don't use one. Much better luck with a mechanical pump. It seems like you are using a band aid to fix a real problem. Personally, I would invest in a new mechanic.

 

[55blacktie]

Wrong fuel pump for priming. A rotary electric fuel pump will not let the engine diaphragm pump draw fuel through it. You need an electric diaphragm pump for intermittent use.

There are 153 reviews for this pump on Summit's website. I did not read all 153, but two of the reviews state that the pump is being used in conjunction with a mechanical pump. summitracing.com/parts/crt-p4594/reviews

 

[Shawnski]

Does anyone know what size that bolt head is that holds the fuel pump cam in place?

 

[55blacktie]

It's not uncommon to have problems with either mechanical/electric fuel pumps. For that reason, Casco is buying OEM/AC pumps and rebuilding them.

 

[doug7740]

Not only AC fuel pumps, CASCO wants rebuildable cores that are made in USA, Canada, or Mexico.
The cores they want use hex head screws or slotted head screws.









They do not want cores made in China. Typically these cores use Philips head screws, and the bottom sediment bowl has a red washer and Philips head screws.






doug7740
1955 Thunderbird Blue

 

[Shawnski]

Where can the parts to rebuild your own pump be found? I was able to easily replace the lower bowl gasket, but the diaphragm for the actual pump needs to be replaced.

 

[Critterpainer]

Then and now automotive. 781.335.8860

 

[jimntempe]

When I got my car the mechanical pump barely worked and would not keep the car running. PO has put a Holley Red on the frame rail back near the gas tank running full time. I replaced the mechanical pump with what turned out to be a POS Chinese pump which never worked past the first 10 seconds. As a result for the past 6 months I've continued to use the electric pump. I saved the old pump and recently sent it to Arthur Gould Rebuilders to be rebuilt. Put that rebuilt pump back on and drove the car today without ever turning the electric pump on.

 

[Frankie the Fink]

LOTS of experience with these issuses, first off I don't know why a mechanical pump wouldn't mate with a camshaft; it IS possible to snug a pump onto the block where the actuating arm MISSES the camshaft connection and the pump doesn't operate (ask me how I know). So I'm skeptical about that being a real problem. Its usually best to position the engine at Top Dead Center when installing a mechanical pump. Second, aftermarket electric pumps are designed to be as close to the fuel tank as possible this inceases the pressure and also prevents vapor lock. You CAN operate an electric pump THROUGH the mchanical pump, but there are several downsides to it: Your mechanic mentions an electric pump on Corvettes - the attached picture shows my 63 aftermarket electric pump, coming right off the sending unit, , 6" from the gas tank.

1. If the electric pump doesn't include a rollover sensor (e.g. oil pressure cutoff) it will continue to run after an accident - VERY dangerous, and,
2. If the mechanical pump diaphragm or oil seal fails the electirc pump will jet raw gas into the crankcase and can ruin an engine.

To wit, I have an electirc pump operating this way on my 63 Corvette but I only use it on hot days to prevent/overcome vapor lock or to prime the carb if the car has been sitting for an extended period.

Also, I can't find any Edelbrock 1301 electric fuel pump anywhere, even on the Edelbrock web site, maybe its a 17301

If so, and your mechanic did NOT follow the above instructions for the 17301 the pump WILL ca;vitate and eventually fail.
The Holley "red" series must be mounted THE SAME WAY; from the instructions: "as close as possible to the fuel supply".

IMO - the OP would be much better off getting the original mechanical pump rebuilt or a quality replacement and then find a competent mechanic to install it.

 

[Frankie the Fink]

One final word on Chiwanese fuel pumps - there has been a spate of the camshaft actuator arm pivot pin "walking out" which can cause some bizarre symptons prior to complete inoperation - something to check. Its so bad amny Chevy pals have fabrricated brackets to hold the pin in.....esay enough to check for that.

 

[CSPIDY]

The electric pump that CASCO sells is designed to use in conjunction with your mechanical pump.
It is not robust enough to operate full time.
Best solution is as others have, fix your mechanical pump issues and add the electrical pump as a back up.

 

[Shawnski]

An electric fuel pump should be installed as close to the fuel tank as possible. Electric fuel pumps are designed to push fuel and they lose efficiency when pulling fuel from the tank. I recommend installing the electrical pump in the fuel line on the out board side of the frame inside the second frame to floor brace away from any heat source. It is not necessary to drill a mount hole because a hole already exists in the brace.

View attachment 20743

What do you mean that the mechanical fuel pump is not making contact with the fuel pump eccentric cam? Did your mechanic install the wrong fuel pump with a shorter fuel pump arm?

The camshaft timing gear and the counter weight are keyed to the camshaft; the fuel pump eccentric cam is not. The fuel pump eccentric cam is held on by a bolt and washer and the bolt is torque at 35 to 45 ft-lbs. Putting a dab of blue Loctite on the bolt is a good idea.

View attachment 20744

What I trying to say is if the bolt is loose causing the fuel pump eccentric cam to spin, I wouldn’t advise running the engine using an electric fuel pump.

doug7740
1955 Thunderbird Blue

Doug7740, I’m curious if you know the size of the hex bolt that holds the fuel pump eccentric cam in place. I’ve been having similar issues with my manual pump and have pulled it out for inspection. I can reach the cam eccentric and it doesn’t seem loose. I can actually see the hex head and I’d like to get a wrench on it just to make sure it’s tight. Also, is it standard righty tighty?

 

[doug7740]

I'm sorry I do not recall the size of the hex head bolt. The bolt is a right-hand thread which gets tightened in a clockwise direction. If you are having issues with your mechanical fuel pump, it seems more likely that the fuel pump is defective.

Before you removed the fuel pump did you make sure the engine was set to the top dead center mark on the crank pulley? By doing this the eccentric cam that operates the fuel pump will be on the low side of the cam and the fuel pump will not have much pressure against the operating lever. When you install the fuel pump, make sure the fuel pump operating lever is under the eccentric cam.

doug7740
1955 Thunderbird Blue

 

[ron56]

You need to make sure your at #1 cylinder firing at TDC otherwise you have a 50/50 chance of being at the low side of the eccentric.