1955 Idle temperature high, do I use redesigned spacer AND high volume water pump?

My 55 with a 312 engine (yes later engine) does not overheat usually but I had to let it idle for 10 min in AZ blast furnace temps the other day and the temp reached the high end of OK. I have a new redesigned spacer plate to install. Would it be wise to install the high volume water pump at the same time? I am referring to the water pump with fins on both sides of the impeller. Or would that be overkill or have no effect? My wife wants A/C installed at some point, but that may take some fancy talking as the car is still 6V.
 

doug7740

Well-Known Member
It is my understanding that the redesigned spacer plate was designed to operate with the factory Thunderbird water pump, without the extra fins on the back of the impeller. I don't know, but I would be afraid that the extra fins on the high output water pump would have a negative effect when mounted on the redesigned spacer plate.

After reading the attached article, maybe someone else could give their opinion.

doug7740
1955 Thunderbird Blue
 

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Wow! great article. Is the A-342 actually available for purchase? If so I would go that way. The data speaks for itself. And I want one for my car too. A prior owner put a pair of "pusher' fans on my car with a thermostatic switch, but that feels like a bandaid.

The water pump on a car is essentially a centrifugal pump, no different conceptually than you might see on a pool filter or hot tub. Flow increases with speed, but pressure decreases. For that pump to work efficiently there needs to be a smooth transition from the eccentric cavity out to the volute and the clearance between the impeller and housing is also important to develop pressure, and therefore flow, at low speeds. By extending the space on the back side of the pump (creating too much clearance) and misaligning the volute to the impeller (obstruction to smooth fluid flow) it is bound to have poor flow. Zero flow at idle is shocking, but it explains a lot. Ford should have done something like this in the first place when adding the spacer to the T-bird.

I've been around a lot of industrial centrifugal pumps in my career and I don't recall ever seeing a two sided impeller. I would think they would be common in industry if it was an effective solution... Conceptually is sounds like it addresses the too large of a clearance issue caused by the spacer, but not the volute flow transition, so it may help some. Are there similar flow graphs for it to look at the difference in performance for this pump vs stock?? Has anyone with some spare time and money tried to see if they can both fit on the engine without interference? What does THAT flow graph look like?
 
Wow! great article. Is the A-342 actually available for purchase? If so I would go that way. The data speaks for itself. And I want one for my car too. A prior owner put a pair of "pusher' fans on my car with a thermostatic switch, but that feels like a bandaid.

The water pump on a car is essentially a centrifugal pump, no different conceptually than you might see on a pool filter or hot tub. Flow increases with speed, but pressure decreases. For that pump to work efficiently there needs to be a smooth transition from the eccentric cavity out to the volute and the clearance between the impeller and housing is also important to develop pressure, and therefore flow, at low speeds. By extending the space on the backside of the pump (creating too much clearance) and misaligning the volute to the impeller (obstruction to smooth fluid flow) it is bound to have poor flow. Zero flow at idle is shocking, but it explains a lot. Ford should have done something like this in the first place when adding the spacer to the T-bird.

I've been around a lot of industrial centrifugal pumps in my career and I don't recall ever seeing a two-sided impeller. I would think they would be common in the industry if it was an effective solution... Conceptually is sounds like it addresses the too large of a clearance issue caused by the spacer, but not the volute flow transition, so it may help some. Are there similar flow graphs for it to look at the difference in performance for this pump vs stock?? Has anyone with some spare time and money tried to see if they can both fit on the engine without interference? What does THAT flow graph look like?
The A-432 water pump spacer is available on our website, https://thunderbird.us/.

And before you reinstall a water pump on any Y-Block, you should read the attached article, Potential obstruction to coolant flow.

And if you do not install an A-432 spacer, you should also read the first half of the article, Improving coolant flow.
Chris Ames
'56 Thunderbird
 

Attachments

doug7740

Well-Known Member
Wow! great article. Is the A-342 actually available for purchase? If so I would go that way. The data speaks for itself. And I want one for my car too.
The cost of the spacer is $236.00 plus shipping.

https://thunderbird.us/

Instead of purchasing the spacer, I purchased the high output water pump from CASCO.

https://www.classictbird.com/Water-Pump-Modified-for-Higher-Output-1-Per-car/productinfo/8501HO/

I flush the cooling system on my Thunderbird every two years and use a larger opening thermostat. After installing the high output water pump, I noticed that the engine runs considerably cooler in the 95 degree summer heat.

doug7740
1955 Thunderbird Blue
 

zeroroadkill

Active Member
I installed the 6 blade fan, better radiator, and high output water pump. She now runs at 60% (gauge) on hot days, 45%-50% on cool days, and never hits 95% on hot idle like it used to, maybe 80% on the gauge on a 95° day.

p.s. where do you get the wider opening thermostat?
 

doug7740

Well-Known Member
p.s. where do you get the wider opening thermostat?
CASCO


doug7740
1955 Thunderbird Blue
 
My car does have a 6 blade fan and in 100+ weather it runs around 75% of the white zone on the gauge. My issue is drive-through food joints and long stop lights. Sounds like I will install both pieces if the car is not already equipped. The last owner lives in New Mexico so I assume some of the Bird hot running issues have been addressed.
 
Looking at the data between the A342 spacer and the high flow water pump shows a bit of a mystery. On the A342 spacer test the standard pump shows no flow at 500 and 750 rpm. But then looking at the data from the high flow pump testing the standard pump shows 8.9 gals. at 550 rpm. It looks like the test setups are different but in both cases it looks like they are trying to measure flow but interesting that the numbers are so different. I guess the bottom line is, I hope relative, because I'm using both plus the aluminum radiator and large thermostat.
 
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