R 12 clima gas for bird 1963 | Ford Thunderbird club group 1955-2005 T-Bird models

R 12 clima gas for bird 1963

ines

ines

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Thunderbird Year
1963
hi all, do some one know what was the fill quantity of the R12 clima gas in those times(1963)? i need that to know, because my Mecanic will fill in R 134 gas and for this changement is important to know the quantity (a heard about 965 til 1360 grams).
thank you lots
kind regards
ines

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We, typically, would use approximately 14-18 oz of R134. However, you will se little improvement unless you change out several costly things on your system.
 
ines said:
hi special ed, thanks a lot for your quick replay. your mail made reflect that i am in possesion of a shop manual !!!!!! 😵for the 63 bullet bird is between 23/3 to 3 pounds. send regards from switzerland 😀
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Hopefully your mechanic if familiar with converting R12 to 134a. It will take about 80% of the weight of R12 so if it needed 3 pounds of R12 it will take 2.4 pounds of 134a. That's a ballpark. If the system has NEVER been converted and has never been flushed or otherwise had the original lubricating oil changed be aware that the oil that was used in R12 systems is not "compatible" with 134a. By not compatible it mainly means the oil doesn't really mix with the refrigerate and get carried around the system. In the most basic conversion kits back 30 years ago they would come with a oil charge that added some kind of compatible oil, not a full charge, just a "top up" amount, that was added to the system to provide a small amount of oil that would get carried around. Some people said that would sort of work but didn't really do the job in the long term. I don't know. There are several kinds of oil, you would need to verify which kinds are compatible with the old, I don't think all the new ones are. Also need to check to see which viscosity to use. They also thought it was necessary to replace the condenser with a larger one. That is probably true in theory but in practice most people did not change it and the systems were fine. When I had a 64 I converted it to 134a. The things I changed was the condenser because I didn't want to trust the oil Receiver/Dryer which was mounted on the old one Reusing a 50+ R/D seemed risky. Replacements were expensive so I removed the old condenser and R/D and replaced it with a new one that would fit and fabricated mounts. I added a new aftermarket type R/D in the system mounted on the fender liner. I did not flush the system. Don't recall now if I drained the compressor or not. I added as much new compatible oil as the various instructions/suggestions I found on the internet said to add. When I was done the system worked adequately in Arizona heat. I don't know how well they worked when new so have no way to judge if it was as good, better or worse then original. I didn't keep the car long term so don't know how it held up long term.
 
Tom is right in many cases, but our experience has shown that an old system that you have will require a complete changeover including Compressor oil New Refrigerant Lines The old ones will lose the R134 faster since the molecules are smaller and the old hoses leak the R134 faster due to construction. This can mean a lot of money, but the new addition will last another 50 years.
 
My stock '65 T-Bird has an inline glass sight glass to see when the bubbles stop flowing; when they stop, you are full. I never worried about the weight going in. I have converted a few systems to R34 without doing anything other than a freon change. Maybe I'm lucky, but I have heard of many others doing the same thing. I did this to a 78 Lincoln over ten years ago, and it still blows cold, my 65, three years ago. If the lines leak a bit, Walmart sells R34 for cheap. I own a large auto repair shop (12 techs) and own four AC machines. It's a federal crime to "just add" freon for a shop, but as a private party, I can do it all day long.
 
Scary Gary said:
My stock '65 T-Bird has an inline glass sight glass to see when the bubbles stop flowing; when they stop, you are full. I never worried about the weight going in. I have converted a few systems to R34 without doing anything other than a freon change. Maybe I'm lucky, but I have heard of many others doing the same thing. I did this to a 78 Lincoln over ten years ago, and it still blows cold, my 65, three years ago. If the lines leak a bit, Walmart sells R34 for cheap. I own a large auto repair shop (12 techs) and own four AC machines. It's a federal crime to "just add" freon for a shop, but as a private party, I can do it all day long.
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Be aware that while the sight glass worked for assessing charge level on R12 systems it does not work for 134a. Yes, you will see bubbles, but if you charge up to where the bubbles disappear it will be overcharged. Pretty much all conversions wind up with a lot of judgment as to how much 134a to put in. The sight glass isn't reliable, nor are the conversion factors for weight (they give a range, not an exact figure for all systems) although they are probably the best starting point if you have a fully original system. I have always targeted the amount by weight but watched the pressures. My general guideline is watching the low side pressure (bypass the low pressure switch if there is one so the compressor won't cycle). When the system is less then full the lower side will draw down pretty low, like into the low 20's. Engine should be perhaps running 1500 - 2500 rpm. As you add more 134a watch for the low side to stop going down and start rising. Stop charging and let it stabilize. I feel the sweet spot is for it to be stable at 1500 - 2500 rpm at a low side pressure of about 32 to 40. When it engine goes back to idle low side will rise. Speed it up to 2500 and you want it to not go below about 30, maybe 35. Every system is a bit different. Too little 134a and low side pressures will be low, too much and they will run high, like 45 to 50. Also be watching the high side, it you are getting too much in it will start to go up. Sometimes in the driveway with limited air movement it will read higher than ideal. I have had a couple instances of doing this where I wound up with too much 134a in the system and when I took it on the freeway I could feel the compressor short cycling from excessive high side pressure. On newer systems which don't have much storage capacity for excess 134a, I would say the difference between the perfect charge and too much can be as little as 1/4 can, maybe half a can. That's only 3 to 6 oz.
 
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