Engine swap to 1969 T bird | Ford Thunderbird forum club group 1955-2005 models

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Engine swap to 1969 T bird

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Thunderbird Year
1969
Anybody know if it's feasibly possible (using stock motor-mounts, parts, enough room, etc.) to swap out the tired old 429 c.i. in my 1969 'Bird with a 462.c.i. from a Continental (with only 110,324 mi. on it!) -without costing me millions & having to custom-fab. a buncha stuff..? (other than exhaust hook-ups)
My engine bay LOOKS big enough, & both mills have 'front-sump' pans, but has anyone here heard of this having been done before..??

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Ok, I don't know where to start except to say that's a bad idea.

The 462 is a MEL engine, which is a different engine family from your 429, which is a member of the 385 engine family. Exhaust is the least of your worries. The 462 has the MEL bolt pattern, and your C6 transmission has the 385 bolt pattern. You will need to swap in the C6 from the donor car. Which leads to:

The newest 462 was manufactured in 1967, which means the donor transmission is also at least 55 years old and maybe as much as 63 years old. That family of engines was produced from 1958 to 1967, so parts are going to be hard to find. Which leads to:

How is a 55 year old engine with over 100,000 miles considered fresh? I can think of several adjectives to describe a well running mid-60's engine, but fresh is not one that I would use.

Even if you are getting the 462 for free, you will end up paying more to make it work than just selling it and buying a 460, which is another engine from the 385 family and it is a direct bolt in replacement for the 429. Well, you will probably have to tweak a few things such as accessories, but that will be minor.

Edit: the 462 was produced in 1966 and 1967. So your 462 could only be 55 or 56 years old. I'm guilty of not reading the link I included above. Sorry about that. They included the 462 in the 1968 model year Lincoln, but they were left over from the prior year's engine production.
 
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Toothaker said:
Ok, I don't know where to start except to say that's a bad idea.

The 462 is a MEL engine, which is a different engine family from your 429, which is a member of the 385 engine family. Exhaust is the least of your worries. The 462 has the MEL bolt pattern, and your C6 transmission has the 385 bolt pattern. You will need to swap in the C6 from the donor car. Which leads to:

The newest 462 was manufactured in 1967, which means the donor transmission is also at least 55 years old and maybe as much as 63 years old. That family of engines was produced from 1958 to 1967, so parts are going to be hard to find. Which leads to:

How is a 55 year old engine with over 100,000 miles considered fresh? I can think of several adjectives to describe a well running mid-60's engine, but fresh is not one that I would use.

Even if you are getting the 462 for free, you will end up paying more to make it work than just selling it and buying a 460, which is another engine from the 385 family and it is a direct bolt in replacement for the 429. Well, you will probably have to tweak a few things such as accessories, but that will be minor.
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Agreed. 460 engines are dirt cheap and they made them all the way up until 1996. Easy to find parts for and an almost direct swap from the 429. Heck you can take 429 heads and put them right onto a 460 as well as most of the accessories too. The engine in my 1969 Tbird is a 460 out of a late 70's truck. One thing to remember is make sure you know what harmonic balancer you got. Some were internally balanced and some were externally. Don't want to mess that up or you will ruin your main bearings.

EDIT: Other differences I can think of is spark plug size is different from earlier heads and later ones. Just be mindful of this with whatever you choose to do.
 
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OneAmongOthers said:
Agreed. 460 engines are dirt cheap and they made them all the way up until 1996. Easy to find parts for and an almost direct swap from the 429. Heck you can take 429 heads and put them right onto a 460 as well as most of the accessories too. The engine in my 1969 Tbird is a 460 out of a late 70's truck. One thing to remember is make sure you know what harmonic balancer you got. Some were internally balanced and some were externally. Don't want to mess that up or you will ruin your main bearings.
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I did not know that! I know about the 302's balance differences, but I was unaware that the 385 had the same issue. I learn something every day.
 
Toothaker said:
Ok, I don't know where to start except to say that's a bad idea.

The 462 is a MEL engine, which is a different engine family from your 429, which is a member of the 385 engine family. Exhaust is the least of your worries. The 462 has the MEL bolt pattern, and your C6 transmission has the 385 bolt pattern. You will need to swap in the C6 from the donor car. Which leads to:

The newest 462 was manufactured in 1967, which means the donor transmission is also at least 55 years old and maybe as much as 63 years old. That family of engines was produced from 1958 to 1967, so parts are going to be hard to find. Which leads to:

How is a 55 year old engine with over 100,000 miles considered fresh? I can think of several adjectives to describe a well running mid-60's engine, but fresh is not one that I would use.

Even if you are getting the 462 for free, you will end up paying more to make it work than just selling it and buying a 460, which is another engine from the 385 family and it is a direct bolt in replacement for the 429. Well, you will probably have to tweak a few things such as accessories, but that will be minor.

Edit: the 462 was produced in 1966 and 1967. So your 462 could only be 55 or 56 years old. I'm guilty of not reading the link I included above. Sorry about that. They included the 462 in the 1968 model year Lincoln, but they were left over from the prior year's engine production.
Click to expand...
+...thanks for the reply. -You had me at "Bad Idea"! but thanks for the painful details. ...I figured it must be something like this, or some 'wrenchhead' would've done it before, but I've heard the 460 is basically a 'boat-anchor' (the 429 having more H.P.) I did see a sweet 'Pro-street' one in a 1970 Ford short bed step-side (with beefed trans/9" rear end,etc.) -but it twisted the frame & I couldn't snag it before he passed away & his 'estate' got it. your Advice well received, as one can get a Re-mfd. 429/7.0 long-block for aprox $2-2,500.oo, & I can transfer all the other parts myself, - but should it be one BEFORE say, 1973, or would it matter..?
 
Well, you are sort of right. All Detroit engines in the early 1970's - starting around 1972 or so - were boat anchors. Pollution controls were poorly understood and even more poorly implemented. Ford did things like lower compression and retard camshafts by 8° to meet the emissions requirements of the day. Hopefully, any engine that has been remanufactured will have a 'straight up' camshaft. There's nothing wrong with the 460 except the era it was produced.

If you are looking for an engine, start with the one you have. The 429 heads of 1969 and 1970 are great heads considering their age. The very best option before you is if you could find someone to remanufacture your 429.

If you are shopping for engines of the era, stay away from the 1972 (D2VE) due to the terrible combustion chamber design. It was so bad the next year they reverted to the prior design, even though the chamber is still a little bigger. So look for head with C9VE, D0VE or D3VE foundry marks.

Engine shops have a bad habit of dismissing your engine and talking up the engine they are trying to sell you. Don't let anyone tell you your engine has no value. "Eh. I'll give you $50 trade in on your old engine." Um, nope. He's lusting after your C9VE heads, and probably has someone who has a standing order for C9VE heads to sell them to. If you have an hour or two, call around to shops that specialize in engines of the era and ask them if they have C9VE or D0VE heads, and if so, how much they want for them.
 
A few notes to consider. The 429s in passenger cars were all made before 1972, therefore do not have hardened exhaust seats for unleaded gas.
The 460 is just a longer stroke crankshaft in a 429 block. They are identical externally.
Starting in the 1979 model year the 460 crankshaft was changed to external balance. The forward balancer is on the spacer sleeve, the harmonic balancer does not change. The back end of the later 460 crankshaft has a smaller guide hole for the torque converter. You have to watch your crankshaft and torque converter match ups.
What is the problem with your engine?
 
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