1965 power window intermittent

Rom324

Active Member
Joined
May 2, 2018
Thunderbird Year
1959
My 1965 power windows are intermittent operation. Is that a relay problem because all the switches are working. Any help us appreciated. Sometimes they all work, sometimes only a few work. All switches are new, and work intermitantly.
 
Joined
Aug 11, 2017
Thunderbird Year
1966
My 1965 power windows are intermittent operation. Is that a relay problem because all the switches are working. Any help us appreciated. Sometimes they all work, sometimes only a few work. All switches are new, and work intermitantly.

The power windows do not run through a relay, (other than a main safety relay in the dash panel). Power comes from the fuse panel, to the switch, and then to the motor.
What usually happens, is the commutator on the motors gets a bit oxidized, and does not make good contact with the carbon brush. If your car sits for long periods, or you do not run the windows up and down often this is how the commutators get "dirty", and more-so if you live in a high humidity area.
One of my windows, driver main, occasionally stops, as you note, and what I do, is to hold the button up or down, depending on where the window is, and open and close the door firmly. That usually causes enough jar to make the connection between the brush and commutator. When I do use my car for shows, etc., I always run all the windows up or down, open or closed, to clean the commutators and brushes, and have no problem.
Cheers.
 

Rom324

Active Member
Joined
May 2, 2018
Thunderbird Year
1959
Awesome. Thank you very much for your technique for getting windows with new motors and switches working. Saved me from taking the door panels off again. I’ll try it as soon as I get Back to the car. I live In south Florida and it has been 100% humidity here. I’m sure that is the issue. I usual Find that these cars suffer from bad ground wires as well. Jim





The power windows do not run through a relay, (other than a main safety relay in the dash panel). Power comes from the fuse panel, to the switch, and then to the motor.
What usually happens, is the commutator on the motors gets a bit oxidized, and does not make good contact with the carbon brush. If your car sits for long periods, or you do not run the windows up and down often this is how the commutators get "dirty", and more-so if you live in a high humidity area.
One of my windows, driver main, occasionally stops, as you note, and what I do, is to hold the button up or down, depending on where the window is, and open and close the door firmly. That usually causes enough jar to make the connection between the brush and commutator. When I do use my car for shows, etc., I always run all the windows up or down, open or closed, to clean the commutators and brushes, and have no problem.
Cheers.

="Poppy Red, post: 38381, member: 9103"]The power windows do not run through a relay, (other than a main safety relay in the dash panel). Power comes from the fuse panel, to the switch, and then to the motor.
What usually happens, is the commutator on the motors gets a bit oxidized, and does not make good contact with the carbon brush. If your car sits for long periods, or you do not run the windows up and down often this is how the commutators get "dirty", and more-so if you live in a high humidity area.
One of my windows, driver main, occasionally stops, as you note, and what I do, is to hold the button up or down, depending on where the window is, and open and close the door firmly. That usually causes enough jar to make the connection between the brush and commutator. When I do use my car for shows, etc., I always run all the windows up or down, open or closed, to clean the commutators and brushes, and have no problem.
Cheers.[/QUOTE]
 
Joined
Jul 8, 2018
Thunderbird Year
1966
I just did a relay upgrade on our '66. We had the exact same problem that you are describing. I eliminated the safety relay because it was shot and to me it's not worth $60; you could swap it out with a modern bosch style relay for $15 but it will not look factory. I also replaced ALL the old wires, switches and bullet connectors. I didn't replace the motors but did open them up and clean them. Like Poppy Red mentioned, the commutators were blackened. I cleaned them up with emery cloth and acetone. Close inspection of the removed, origional wiring harness revealed that the factory solder joint under the console had come apart. The 3 black wires that were soldered together had green and black rot and the solder was brittle.
 
Joined
Oct 7, 2018
Thunderbird Year
1966
I just did a relay upgrade on our '66. We had the exact same problem that you are describing. I eliminated the safety relay because it was shot and to me it's not worth $60; you could swap it out with a modern bosch style relay for $15 but it will not look factory. I also replaced ALL the old wires, switches and bullet connectors. I didn't replace the motors but did open them up and clean them. Like Poppy Red mentioned, the commutators were blackened. I cleaned them up with emery cloth and acetone. Close inspection of the removed, origional wiring harness revealed that the factory solder joint under the console had come apart. The 3 black wires that were soldered together had green and black rot and the solder was brittle.

Could you share what you did to remove the motors? Manual is not all that clear. The ones I've done before ('67 Lincoln) required removal of the window regulator mechanism and I'm wondering if that's required on the '66 T-bird. thanks, Mitch
 
Joined
Jul 8, 2018
Thunderbird Year
1966
The motor and window regulator come out as a unit. Us a piece of wood to hold the windows up, they will not stay up with the reg's removed and are heavy. IIRC, first remove rollers that attach the window to the reg's. It's hard to explain but there's a large metal clip that needs to be spread out as you pull the rollers off, it's rather easy if you're doing it right. I can't remember for certain but I think you'll need to apply 12 volts to compress the regulator for removal. Then there's 3 bolts holding the motor/regulator. Once removed the reg and motor will come out of the largest hole.

Once you have the motor/regulator assembly out take pics as you are dismantling them. I can't stress enough how helpful a smart phone or digi camera will be with this procedure, also take notes or use a sharpie to mark position of things. The manuals only provide general info for this kind of stuff. Take note of the position of the motor and regulator as you seperate them and also the position of the large assist spring. Check out those assist springs. Sometimes they are broken or worn out. They are intended to assist the motor in upward travel and will be under tension with the window in the down position. I believe, but am not certain, that one of my springs was put in backwards causing a slow window. Do your best to not make this a 2 week project or, like me, you'll forget how to put things back together. Also, you'll need 12 volts to run the motors to seperate them from the regulator. If someone know's a better way I'd be happy to hear it. Make sure you clear off your bench when operating the motor and regulator. I broke a couple of coffee cups and sent several other items off the edge of my bench.

Almost forgot, when you open the motors look for the 3 rubber balls that sit between the motor and window gear. They may not be there anymore. I think they dissolve into the grease. I replaced mine with 3 rubber stoppers that I bought at the local hardware store. I had to whittle them down a bit with a utility knife, cost about $1.50 for all six. Reproductions of this part go for $12- 30 per window.

I replaced most of my system. Switches, wires, connectors, breaker and relays with the exception of the motors and regulators. My windows have been reliable and quick for the last few months. I would say that the speed is on par with new vehicles.
 
Joined
Oct 7, 2018
Thunderbird Year
1966
Just put the driver's side regulator back in the car and thought I'd share my experience to add to what others have said.

When I took mine apart the motor was not operable and the window was in the up position. I propped up the window with a piece of wood at the rear of the window so the block wouldn't interfere with getting the regulator out. I think the wood was 17-18 inches long and I had a couple of small pieces of 1/2" plywood I put along the bottom of the door to use as shims to get the right fit. I removed the two nuts and washers from the roller channel that attaches to the door panel and then the 4 bolts holding the regulator to the door. The regulator then slid easily out of the window roller channels without removing the rollers by shifting it back and forth and then dropped down where I could slide it out of the big hole in the door.

With the regulator out, I clamped the sector gear that's attached to the window lift arms to the regulator base to keep it from moving and then removed the 3 bolts that hold the window motor to the regulator. Make sure the clamp is tight or you'll be in for a big surprise when the spring unwinds. Once the motor is removed, I clamped the regulator base in a vise and, holding the main lift arm firmly, I removed the clamp and relieved the spring pressure.

I scraped the rubber coating off of the motor and took the motor apart; be careful not to lose the springs that go behind the brushes. I cleaned the commutator and cleaned off all of the old grease. Putting things back together is a challenge (at least for me). When putting the brushes back in, I put them in place and held them in place with two short lengths of galvanized wire where I had put a 120 degree hook on one end and used that to hook around the braided wire attached to each brush. Once the brushes were in and held back, I put a dab of grease on the end of the armature and slipped it back into place. Once in place I wiggled out the two lengths of galvanized wire and was then able to lube the gear housing and reassemble and test the motor. Others have talked about the safety clutch issue in the gear housing; mine was fine. I bought a spray can of rubber coating made by Rustoleum…. similar to the rubber coatings (flex seal)you see advertised on TV but the Rustoleum dries faster. I put several coats on the motor housing to seal out moisture.

Two of the bolt holes in the gear housing that attaches to the regulator seemed somewhat stripped so I drilled the two tapped holes in the motor housing using a 15/64 bit and bought two new 1/4 x 28 bolts at the hardware store.

Once the motor was installed you can reengage the sector gear by running the motor and moving the sector gear into place; I had a bit of a problem with jamming the motor while doing this but after a couple of tries the gears engaged. I used white lithium grease to lube the regulator.

I then removed the rollers from the regular arms that engage the window channels by pulling out the clips. Once removed, put the clips back into the rollers so you don't misplace them. No need to remove the roller that runs in the door mounted channel. I then slipped the regulator assembly back in the door and put one of the bolts in that attach the regulator to the door. I then ran the motor so that it was somewhat close to the "almost down" position. I then took out the long wooden prop and substituted a 6" prop that brought the window to a position where I could see and get to the window channels. I then slipped in the rollers with clip installed and snapped the window arms into the rollers. I had spent considerable time trying to install the clip after the window arm was inserted into the roller and failed miserably. Once I figured out that the clip could be installed on the roller and the arm would just snap into place it was much much easier. The next thing to do was to slip the door roller channel over its roller and then put it into place and install the washers and nuts. Although further adjustment may be required, a good place to start is to tighten the door mounted channel midway in its adjustment slots. By running the motor a little bit at a time the regulator base will rotate into position so the other three mounting bolts can be installed.

I'm sure others have done this and I'd be happy to hear of any better ways to do it.
 

64ZCODE

Active Member
Joined
Aug 18, 2018
Thunderbird Year
1964
Hi all. This is fantastic input. I need to reinstall the right rear quarter window motor and regulator (previous owner had taken it apart) and this will be quite helpful.

One question - towards the top of this string, the "main safety relay in the dash panel" is mentioned. Is this the switch mechanism in the console or is it something else?
 

Martin P

1955 Ford Thunderbird Raven Black
Joined
May 1, 2020
Thunderbird Year
1955
Question does the relay that controls the window effect the intermittent switch operation. Does the relay need to be grounded? I replaced motor with new and window is still sluggish almost doesn’t want to close in up position. I also replaced the switches with new. My mechanic also did some work on this which I was informed that the relay was stealing power and causing g the battery to drain. All wiring is new. Window channels have new felt insert. I am beginning to think it’s a relay or ground somewhere that is causing the sluggish operation. Any advise would be appreciated
 
Joined
Sep 23, 2020
Thunderbird Year
1965
The power windows do not run through a relay, (other than a main safety relay in the dash panel). Power comes from the fuse panel, to the switch, and then to the motor.
What usually happens, is the commutator on the motors gets a bit oxidized, and does not make good contact with the carbon brush. If your car sits for long periods, or you do not run the windows up and down often this is how the commutators get "dirty", and more-so if you live in a high humidity area.
One of my windows, driver main, occasionally stops, as you note, and what I do, is to hold the button up or down, depending on where the window is, and open and close the door firmly. That usually causes enough jar to make the connection between the brush and commutator. When I do use my car for shows, etc., I always run all the windows up or down, open or closed, to clean the commutators and brushes, and have no problem.
Cheers.
If that's so,why windows not work if it's disconnected
 
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