1961 390 rebuild kits - upgrades | Ford Thunderbird forum club group 1955-2005 models

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1961 390 rebuild kits - upgrades

  • Thread starter Thread starter keithnh
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keithnh

keithnh

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1961
Hoping for some groupthink on search for parts options to rebuild and possibly upgrade engine in my 61 TB. Appears there are differences between the 61 and later 390FE's as I see rebuild kits with date ranges that do not include it. More plentiful seems starting with 65. I would like.to use whats in motor for the most part .. would cryo rods, and possibly main caps and install ARP rod bolts/studs if I can find appropriate ones.. Likely change valves/springs and add CC roller tip rockers. Possibly add FITECH or ? FI vs carb but will not decide that till further along.

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Just rebuilt my 390 FE- no problems getting basic engine parts, however a camshaft upgrade will not show to be available! I ended up with a 1963 up Hi-lift cam, but had to drill and tap existing bosses so I could install the later camshaft plate. Works great.
 
So is cam main difference early to later? I had heard the 61 was solid lifter only .. was wondering if the crank and rods might be early 1140 steel as Pontiacs were. Possibly starters bolt to bell hsg vs engine block again as Pontiac (I do have more familiarity with them, trying to learn Ford). Did see Fel-pro gasket sets .. spotty availability, think I saw Clevite/Mahle re-ring kits but were fore 65-up, I feel more comfortable than "EnginePro". Just want good street parts.
 
The internet should supply you with all the answers! Check the FE engine sites and other Tbird sites. The cam on the standard '61 390 had Hydraulic lifters.
 
Don't rely on the Internet for everything. There are some differences in the real early F/E engines. Cam and timing gears are one to note. All of the head gaskets are the same.
The crank and rods are the same throughout the production cycle, unless you have an M code engine, which used a larger rod bolt.
All F/E engines have the starter bolted to the bell housing, however there's a difference in the early engines with 1964 and earlier having a reverse engage starter drive and a smaller ring gear. If I remember correctly the early engines are 153 tooth and later are 172.
You have hydraulic lifters. Unless you are planning on racing the crank and rods are more than up to the job, I am always up for good bolt upgrades, crank,rod,main, but you probably will not need to change main caps unless damaged or heavily boosted.
Keep us posted on your progress! You're going find this engine built quite similar to a Pontiac, very heavy.
Look carefully at your intake manifold, you will notice it is cut flat, specific to the early Thunderbird 390.
 
A great resource I have used is "How To Rebuild Big Block Ford Engines" by Steve Christ. This covers all FE and FT engines. There are some small but significant differences in early and later FE engines. The 63 and later engines use a larger flange on the main thrust bearing. This may be one reason some call for later blocks. This resource helped me avoid mistakes in my builds of 63, 64, and 66 FE's.
 
Thanks Harley, BBK ... found A fel-pro gasket set online that said 65up but when I checked 61 390 on "does this fit my vehicle" it said yes and gave me 3 options for 61 factory vin code .. Q, R and Z .. looking in my Ford Big-block interchange/Reid book I could not find these code variations. I do find 3 block codes c1ae-c, c1ae-g and c1ae-v .... , 3 crank codes c1ae-a, c1ae-h, c1ae-d .... and 3 rod codes c1ae-e, c1ae-f, c1ae-g .. perhaps these correspond to each other?? Bold per Reid indicates high performance, not sure why. Havent cracked the egg yet so dont know whats in there. Believe I deciphered head casting number as c1ae-a meaning it could be a 352. Does have T-bird valve covers. May order the Steve Christ book, I have to crack the egg and see if I can massage everything back to life.
 

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If it is original to the car it is a 390. Only the 'M' code would be solid lifters and it would have 3x2's up top. All the C1AE-A says for sure is it's a Sixty one Ford Engine. I would be surprised if someone replaced a 390 with a 352. If it happened to be a 352, bore it to 4.05 and use a 390 crank, rods, and pistons...390.
That is sure not the correct paint for a Tbird.
 
Hope it is 390, car does not have a rear-end, have found a posi 8.8 I would hope to find 3.25 gears for if I can shoehorn in. I dont have trans either, would prefer to fit an early aod to it .. thinking that combo would make a pleasant healthy streeter I could drive alot. Remnants of a red interior I would try to replace entire, black exterior color. Did they have gold valve covers? I do not care for that. I like Ford blue for engine, semi-gloss black for air cleaner - other engine compartment metal parts .. would prefer factory chrome or just Ford blue for valve covers maybe stainless bolts. Likely try to find another vintage 3310 Holley as the one on my 3.23 P-400 GTO was very pleasurable to me back in the day. Think TB heavier. I still have back in day 3310(my first Holley) but slated for a different motor. Will have block baked, beaded magged .. if good may be my first glyptal-rebake oil galley experiment at shop as they said they would play along with me. Do same with heads.
 
For your car, a 9" rear is what you need. There's a lot of them out there and nothing beats a 9". To go with a aod you will need some type of adapter.
Originally it did have gold valve covers, but you can definitely change that.
Z code is 390 4V,
Q code is is 406 (Galaxie) '62, '63. Then 428 1966-70
R code is 427 8V (Galaxie) '63-68.
M code is 390 6-V Thunderbird special 1962-3
 
I am with Harley on the 9". The toughness, gear selection, and limited slip selections are very good. I looked into using an AOD in my '63 Galaxie but the options were slim. I went with a spread ratio C6 for low end performance and highway cruising with 3.23/1 and a Truetrac. I have used Holley and Edelbrock carbs each have their value.
If you are not interested in a concours restoration the color pallet is up to you. I kept the black engine & valve covers, white air cleaner on my 430 optioned 60 Tbird. the standard 352 had yellow valve covers, not my favorite.
 
Would really like to have a correct 9 but having trouble finding one I can afford to fit properly. I have to do this on a shoestring with elbow grease .. found 8.8 posi for 150$ close to me I believe a Bronco II or Ranger unit. There is even closer a 77 TB with likely a 9.38 for 250$ likely not posi, in the woods and mud, buddy has a non-posi 9.38 missing some parts I may choose to try but think either 9.38 too wide for the 61 .. I cant really budget cutting axles and hsgs. I think the 8.8 may be very close both spring pin mount to mount and backing plate to plate. Wrote numbers down and cant find now .. think pin to pin was 41" and plate to plate 57"ish. Not sure how to measure backing plate to backing plate for correct fit with no reference rear. I think the 8.8 was very close to fitting from my sloppy measurements. Likely too steep a gear but they are very common. Would like to have correct enough to fit factory wheels in the factory wells properly. Right now just has a straight tow axle across rear, I will not move again until it has a rear I can bolt in place securely.
 
The '77 will not be a 9 3/8" if it's stock. That rear end was used mid sixties until about '70-71 in the 428 Galaxies and big Lincolns. It was not real popular. The rear end for your Bird would have been a 3.0 with 28 spline axles.
 
I have the housing out of my 63 Galaxie. It is approximately 46 3/8" pin to pin and 56 1/2" on the flanges. It would require a little welding in a few spots but should be useable. I am just south of Fort Worth, Texas if you are interested it is yours. The old 3rd member is also available. It is an orphan 8.75 ring gear in a 9" housing, 3.0 non-posi . That will go for scrap if nobody wants it. Diff Tag.jpg
 
Pretty sure the pin to pin is about 5" wide, not sure about flange to flange. Will try to find info on those numbers. I am an ex-flat bedder and live up in NH tho my first trucking job was with a company out of Joplin MO, was born in KCMO. Through your area many times, delivered to Waco the day the Davidian compound was stormed, saw the smoke. I know alot to ship, likely more than buying correct rear. Think I still have buds that might be interested in an "add-on" to a home load I might be able to arrange transport with. I did find a Jeep 9.0 3.25 ring and pinion, wondering if might be used with your 3rd, have a straight tow axle Im going to rig to get a measurement of flange to flange with a set of collars + maybe welding rod pointers. Be nice to also know the back-spacing+ width on factory wheels to help see what will fit in the wells correctly and help ID the flange to flange number I need. Will take me a bit to juggle all this. Even if your rear does not fit my TB it could be useful to me for another project if 9" parts fit . Thank you! Keith
 
A friend is working on a 63 Tbird now. I will ask him to measure the stock rear pin and flange distances. That could save you a lot of guess work trying to determine what should have been in there. If I remember correctly the 61-63 have 14" wheels. I may have one I can measure backspace for you. Brad
 
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