1957 - only starts when cold

[Hernando Muñoz]

My 57 Ranch Wagon (Y 292) is furnished with a Holley carburetor type "Motorcraft C2TE" original. Gasoline is pushed by a small electric pump located in line close to the tank which feeds the mechanical one that proved to be insufficient but at least moves well the wipers.
The engine starts perfect when cold. But as soon as I shut it down (hot) it won't start easily and must wait around 2 hours.
Float is adjusted so no overflow is seen. But I can see some vapor on the barrels.
I insulated the base with extra gaskets as the separator is original made of aluminum.
The engine runs smoothly after it starts, but I can't shut it down or it won't come back again until cold.
Any ideas of why it won't start hot??

 

[4VE]

It is possible that you are experiencing what was/is known as "vapor lock". It seems to haunt certain conventionally aspirated gasoline engines. If you do a search, of the term in quotes "vapor lock" you will find much literature and videos on the subject. With the notoriously hot running of the 292 and 312's in the baby birds, it is quite likely your problem.

 

[Hernando Muñoz]

Yes, that was my original thought (vapor lock)... What is strange is that it has worked fine for so many years and just recently started with suck behavior.
Is there a recommendation to avoid the vapor lock?

 

[Ward 57]

Yes, that was my original thought (vapor lock)... What is strange is that it has worked fine for so many years and just recently started with suck behavior.
Is there a recommendation to avoid the vapor lock?

With the change in behavior, there has been an ongoing discussion about the heat riser baffle on the right exhaust manifold may be stuck. See if you can manipulate it by hand. It should move freely and make sure the thermostatic spring is intact.

 

[Hernando Muñoz]

With the change in behavior, there has been an ongoing discussion about the heat riser baffle on the right exhaust manifold may be stuck. See if you can manipulate it by hand. It should move freely and make sure the thermostatic spring is intact.

The right exhaust manifold heat riser has been non operative for many years... however I may need to open the pipe junction to see through and be sure it is fully open... thanks!!

 

[Ward 57]

The right exhaust manifold heat riser has been non operative for many years... however I may need to open the pipe junction to see through and be sure it is fully open... thanks!!

You don't need to pull it apart to check. Just push down on the weighted knob and see if it moves. If it does, warm it up and the bi-metal spring should open it when the engine is hot. It works just like the spring in the choke and they get tired with age.

 

[CSPIDY]

So it turns over but won’t start
what outside air temp or doesn’t matter?
It’s cooler now in most places, so vapor lock would be unlikely unless you live in a hot climate
Is your choke working properly

 

[Hernando Muñoz]

I am guessing my problem is heat on the carburetor. I installed some 5 gaskets (made of special gasket paper) and the problem was "reduced" a little. As the separator is made of aluminum (no Nylon or similar plastic), I believe it transfers heat from the engine to the carburetor (it actually feels quite hot, beyond "warm")... If you have an idea on how to get a 2-barrel (Holley-Motrocraft) insulator, please let me know. I have seen videos and these insulators get to high thicknesses up to 1 inch... but I would say that 1/2 to 9/16's should be enough... I appreciate your comments.

 

[Ward 57]

I am guessing my problem is heat on the carburetor. I installed some 5 gaskets (made of special gasket paper) and the problem was "reduced" a little. As the separator is made of aluminum (no Nylon or similar plastic), I believe it transfers heat from the engine to the carburetor (it actually feels quite hot, beyond "warm")... If you have an idea on how to get a 2-barrel (Holley-Motrocraft) insulator, please let me know. I have seen videos and these insulators get to high thicknesses up to 1 inch... but I would say that 1/2 to 9/16's should be enough... I appreciate your comments.

2 barrel? all the 57's were 4 barrel and used a phenolic spacer not aluminum under the carb as an insulator CASCO part # 9A589B $42.05. The aluminum will NOT act as an insulator, that could be your problem

 

[Hernando Muñoz]

2 barrel? all the 57's were 4 barrel and used a phenolic spacer not aluminum under the carb as an insulator CASCO part # 9A589B $42.05. The aluminum will NOT act as an insulator, that could be your problem

Funny though, my Ranch Wagon has had the 2 barrel carburetor for over 60 years now... I will attach a photo for you and you may let me have a phenolic spacer that will suit this carb... Thanks!!

 

[Ward 57]

Nice looking car! Looking at the catalog the gaskets for the 2 barrel look like they have a different footprint than the 4 barrel. If that's the case I'm not sure how hard a phenolic spacer for a 2 barrel will be to find. Hill's lists one but doesn't describe what it's made of and to call for availability or price.
Hopefully someone else here might know.

 

[Hernando Muñoz]

I just made an eBay purchase for the 1" phenolic separator (vintage look from Holley)...thanks! It should take 2 to 3 weeks to get to Costa Rica...

 

[jack-in-sac]

2 barrel? all the 57's were 4 barrel and used a phenolic spacer not aluminum under the carb as an insulator CASCO part # 9A589B $42.05. The aluminum will NOT act as an insulator, that could be your problem

You are incorrect on the statement of; "all 57s were 4 barrel...." "C" code Cars came with a 292 and a 2 barrel.. Ask the man that owns one!

 

[Ward 57]

You are incorrect on the statement of; "all 57s were 4 barrel...." "C" code Cars came with a 292 and a 2 barrel.. Ask the man that owns one!

Don't find one of those very often. I completely forgot about the 'C' code cars as they are pretty rare.

 

[jack-in-sac]

My 57 Ranch Wagon (Y 292) is furnished with a Holley carburetor type "Motorcraft C2TE" original. Gasoline is pushed by a small electric pump located in line close to the tank which feeds the mechanical one that proved to be insufficient but at least moves well the wipers.
The engine starts perfect when cold. But as soon as I shut it down (hot) it won't start easily and must wait around 2 hours.
Float is adjusted so no overflow is seen. But I can see some vapor on the barrels.
I insulated the base with extra gaskets as the separator is original made of aluminum.
The engine runs smoothly after it starts, but I can't shut it down or it won't come back again until cold.
Any ideas of why it won't start hot??

Hernando, I too have a '57 Ranch Wagon.

 

[Hernando Muñoz]

I did a complete analysis today. I have the idea of a flooded carburetor due high pump (electric) pressure. I am seriously tempted to return to only one mechanical pump, but I need a good one; as all which I have purchased (3 so far) simply don't pump enough or noting. They are the "Phillips screws" in the bottom with 2 diaphragms (one for wipers vacuum, which works well). Anyhow, I will look for a good MADE IN USA pump and spend the money...

Hernando, I too have a '57 Ranch Wagon.

Send pictures. I love these Ranch Wagons
..

Hernando, I too have a '57 Ranch Wagon

 

[jack-in-sac]

I did a complete analysis today. I have the idea of a flooded carburetor due high pump (electric) pressure. I am seriously tempted to return to only one mechanical pump, but I need a good one; as all which I have purchased (3 so far) simply don't pump enough or noting. They are the "Phillips screws" in the bottom with 2 diaphragms (one for wipers vacuum, which works well). Anyhow, I will look for a good MADE IN USA pump and spend the money...

Send pictures. I love these Ranch Wagons
..

I use my inline electric pump primarily for priming after the car has been sitting for a few days. I then turn it off and use the mechanical pump for actual driving.

 

[jack-in-sac]

I use my inline electric pump primarily for priming after the car has been sitting for a few days. I then turn it off and use the mechanical pump for actual driving.

Oh yes fyi: in the states we look for Hecho in Mexico pumps not the made in China versions.

 

[Hernando Muñoz]

I absolutely agree. I have a "new Carter pump" which has not worked right from the beginning. I then learn (through this blog) that they are mainly made in China. So, I just purchased (waiting for it to reach Costa Rica) a Made in USA "Rebuilt AC pump" which comes with all kinds of warranties.
Nevertheless, I am going to follow your advice: Use the electric pump just to prime when the car has been parked for many days (until the filter is filled with gasoline) and then shut it off and use my new AC pump. I will let you know how I did with this new arrangement.