swatson999
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- Reaction score
- 37
- Thunderbird Year
- 1956
I need a little help here. I have a 56 w/ a 12V generator system. In what was perhaps a misguided attempt to add a Bluetooth-enable speaker, several weeks ago we bought one and connected it with keep-alive power on the batter (actually, on the battery post on the ignition switch), and the full power line on the accessories post. That may have set off this cascade.
I noticed shortly afterward that the generator light was staying on longer than it was previously, but it would go out after hitting normal around-town speeds/RPMs. Until this morning, when it didn't go off at all. I had also started to notice some static on the BT speakers, but attributed it to ignition noise. Maybe not.
So thinking my VR had gone bad, I bought a replacement one, and installed that. Started up, and voila! Generator light went off as normal. Until the *next* start later in the day, when it didn't go off at all. Sigh. Drove to my car buddy's house and the troubleshooting began.
What we found was that the cut-out relay was not being pulled down, but if you pushed it down, it would stay down. Forever. Even after the car was shut off. So clearly *that's* wrong. We swapped back in the old VR. Similar behavior. Finally realizing (duh) that the last change was the BT speaker, we removed that from the equation by disconnecting it, but the problem remained. And when the VRs stayed closed after shutdown, they got hot, and i mean HOT, like too hot to handle hot.
So we have an hypothesis, and some questions.
Hypothesis: the keep-alive circuit somehow was causing the cut-off relay to remain energized, and after shutoff, it just crapped out the inner, fine-wire windings, and the only thing pulling the relay closed initially was the small-gauge (thick) wire outer windings from the generator. Does this make sense?
And two more questions: the shop manual states that on engine start, the generator creates a voltage that flows to the VR, closing the cut-off relay and thus connecting the battery to the VR. But HOW DOES IT DO THAT? I thought a generator could only create a current if the Field were energized, and it's not energized when the cut-off is open at start! What the...?
Second question is similar...once the battery is connected to the VR circuit via the cut-off relay, when the car is shut off, how on earth does the relay *open*? The battery is directly connected to the circuit, there's no switch anywhere to remove battery power from the relay! Is the current somehow inducted into the large windings, which then go to ground and the field collapses or something like that?
It's been a hell of a frustrating afternoon, and further work will have to wait for the replacement VR to arrive Monday morning, but in the meantime...can anyone help us sort this out? Any and all help is MUCH appreciated!
TIA! Steve
I noticed shortly afterward that the generator light was staying on longer than it was previously, but it would go out after hitting normal around-town speeds/RPMs. Until this morning, when it didn't go off at all. I had also started to notice some static on the BT speakers, but attributed it to ignition noise. Maybe not.
So thinking my VR had gone bad, I bought a replacement one, and installed that. Started up, and voila! Generator light went off as normal. Until the *next* start later in the day, when it didn't go off at all. Sigh. Drove to my car buddy's house and the troubleshooting began.
What we found was that the cut-out relay was not being pulled down, but if you pushed it down, it would stay down. Forever. Even after the car was shut off. So clearly *that's* wrong. We swapped back in the old VR. Similar behavior. Finally realizing (duh) that the last change was the BT speaker, we removed that from the equation by disconnecting it, but the problem remained. And when the VRs stayed closed after shutdown, they got hot, and i mean HOT, like too hot to handle hot.
So we have an hypothesis, and some questions.
Hypothesis: the keep-alive circuit somehow was causing the cut-off relay to remain energized, and after shutoff, it just crapped out the inner, fine-wire windings, and the only thing pulling the relay closed initially was the small-gauge (thick) wire outer windings from the generator. Does this make sense?
And two more questions: the shop manual states that on engine start, the generator creates a voltage that flows to the VR, closing the cut-off relay and thus connecting the battery to the VR. But HOW DOES IT DO THAT? I thought a generator could only create a current if the Field were energized, and it's not energized when the cut-off is open at start! What the...?
Second question is similar...once the battery is connected to the VR circuit via the cut-off relay, when the car is shut off, how on earth does the relay *open*? The battery is directly connected to the circuit, there's no switch anywhere to remove battery power from the relay! Is the current somehow inducted into the large windings, which then go to ground and the field collapses or something like that?
It's been a hell of a frustrating afternoon, and further work will have to wait for the replacement VR to arrive Monday morning, but in the meantime...can anyone help us sort this out? Any and all help is MUCH appreciated!
TIA! Steve
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