1956 Tbird alternator problem?

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Mr. Bill

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Thunderbird Year
1956
My mechanic changed my 56 T bird from a generator to an alternator. A long the way over time we added Ac/ heat unit electronic fuel pump, new radio,2 speed windshield wiper. The car has power windows power seats and a 312 cu engine. After the Electronic fuel pump was added the car stalled out after a short drive on two occasions and would not start. My mechanic came out and tapped the electric fuel pump and the car started right up. What could be the problem? Could the alternator not be of a high enough amps for all these electrical features ? The previous owner installed three gauges battery ,oil pressure, and temperature. when I put on the ac ,radio and turn up the fan the battery gauge drops below 12 volt unless I rev up the engine. The battery is new from NAPA best I could buy, so it's not the battery. Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks Mr.Bill
 

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I have a '57 that I have added: AC, electric fan, electric fuel pump, halogen headlights. I installed an alternator form one I had on the shelf and an micro regulator. I have not had your problem. However it could be that your alternator is not producing sufficient amperage. If you have the invoice from your mechanic the part listed may tell you the alternator part number and the amperage. Without that I could not tell you if you have the amperage you need.
 
Jack-in-sac hit the nail on the head. My '63 was the first Bird from the factory with an alternator but it was far too underpowered for any real upgrades; bought a 220A (110 at idle) from a company called Power Bastards that's been great. I'd get the spec from your installer; betting it's not enough - if so, definitely try to buy an upgrade. The same co I used has them for both the 292 and 312.
https://www.amazon.com/s?k=alternator+for+1956+thunderbird&ref=nb_sb_noss
 
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That is why I do not like electric fuel pumps. They are not that reliable in my estimation. I had the same problem with an electric fuel pump -it works, doesn't work and then works again.

I suggest you use a mechanical pump as the main pump and save the electric pump for starting only
 
thessler said:
Two separate problems. Alternator poor quality, fuel pump poor quality.
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Just me, but I'd do the alternator first. Low amperage can be the cause of flaky response from an electrical fuel pump. Doing one MAY solve the other. I'd at least give it a try. Like I said, just me.
 
DannyInNJ said:
Just me, but I'd do the alternator first. Low amperage can be the cause of flaky response from an electrical fuel pump. Doing one MAY solve the other. I'd at least give it a try. Like I said, just me.
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The electric fuel pump was just replaced for the second time my mechanic said he replaced both times with the best he could find. He replaced the generator with a n alternator within the last 6 months . All this was done over the last 6 months. If he used a low amp alternator this could be the problem.
 
Thanks for the reply. The mechanic replaced the electric fuel pump with" The best he could get" The alternator was a replacement for the generator. I think it was not a poor quality but it lacked the needed amps necessary for the added electrical items, air ,electric fuel pump rack and pinion , the battery is brand new and has 8 year warranty from Napa.
 
Mr. Bill said:
My mechanic changed my 56 T bird from a generator to an alternator. A long the way over time we added Ac/ heat unit electronic fuel pump, new radio,2 speed windshield wiper. The car has power windows power seats and a 312 cu engine. After the Electronic fuel pump was added the car stalled out after a short drive on two occasions and would not start. My mechanic came out and tapped the electric fuel pump and the car started right up. What could be the problem? Could the alternator not be of a high enough amps for all these electrical features ? The previous owner installed three gauges battery ,oil pressure, and temperature. when I put on the ac ,radio and turn up the fan the battery gauge drops below 12 volt unless I rev up the engine. The battery is new from NAPA best I could buy, so it's not the battery. Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.


Mr. Bill said:
My mechanic changed my 56 T bird from a generator to an alternator. A long the way over time we added Ac/ heat unit electronic fuel pump, new radio,2 speed windshield wiper. The car has power windows power seats and a 312 cu engine. After the Electronic fuel pump was added the car stalled out after a short drive on two occasions and would not start. My mechanic came out and tapped the electric fuel pump and the car started right up. What could be the problem? Could the alternator not be of a high enough amps for all these electrical features ? The previous owner installed three gauges battery ,oil pressure, and temperature. when I put on the ac ,radio and turn up the fan the battery gauge drops below 12 volt unless I rev up the engine. The battery is new from NAPA best I could buy, so it's not the battery. Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.
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paul5456 said:
That is why I do not like electric fuel pumps. They are not that reliable in my estimation. I had the same problem with an electric fuel pump -it works, doesn't work and then works again.

I suggest you use a mechanical pump as the main pump and save the electric pump for starting only
Click to expand...
I can fully understand your frustrations, But older technology requires lots of research to match these older vehicles with modern technology, From other sites for my 1988 5.0 Thunderbird, I found out that when some owners added electric fans they also ran into problems & had to upgrade their alternators, That fan along with Amps to power their stereos & The A/C blower would overwork that small Alternator Take care & good luck with it.
 
Mr bill
I shouldn't have said poor quality on alternator, let's go with poor match up. Larger capacity will cure your low voltage at idle. Assuming your alternator is turning at the propper rpm at idle.
Fuel pump is junk. If you took the alternator out of the car completely, the fuel pump should still run off the battery. You did not mention that you had a dead battery, so I assume you did not, therefore the fuel pump should be running.
Just some thoughts.
 
Thanks for the info ,you are not the first to tell me about the unreliability of the electric fuel pump. My mechanic said that the bumps on the cam shaft that gets the mechanical fuel pump moving and keeps it going has warn down and does not get the fuel pump moving all the time hit or miss so rather then welding new spots on the cam shaft he added the electric fuel pump, which is giving me just as if not more problems. I may go back and have him add a new mechanical fuel pump and weld the bumps necessary to drive the fuel pump.
 
thessler said:
Mr bill
I shouldn't have said poor quality on alternator, let's go with poor match up. Larger capacity will cure your low voltage at idle. Assuming your alternator is turning at the propper rpm at idle.
Fuel pump is junk. If you took the alternator out of the car completely, the fuel pump should still run off the battery. You did not mention that you had a dead battery, so I assume you did not, therefore the fuel pump should be running.
Just some thoughts.
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The battery is a new Nappa high end battery, I put it in myself. Others have said electric fuel pumps have been unreliable for them and suggested going back to the mechanical. The mechanic said the mechanical runs by hitting bumps on the cam shaft that have now warn down. He added the electrical fuel pump instead of welding bumps onto the warn part of the cam shaft to drive the mechanical pump. I may talk to him about welding bumps and adding a new mechanical fuel pump.
 
Mr. Bill said:
The battery is a new Nappa high end battery, I put it in myself. Others have said electric fuel pumps have been unreliable for them and suggested going back to the mechanical. The mechanic said the mechanical runs by hitting bumps on the cam shaft that have now warn down. He added the electrical fuel pump instead of welding bumps onto the warn part of the cam shaft to drive the mechanical pump. I may talk to him about welding bumps and adding a new mechanical fuel pump.
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If you go back to a mechanical pump, I highly recommend you have your mechanic rebuild your old mechanical pump rather than buy a new one. Recently, the replacement pumps that are on the market are from China nad are total junk. I had one that lasted 6 months, before pulling it out and rebuilding my old AC pump. You can get a kit from the Antique Auto Parts Cellar / then-now-auto.com. You can reach them by phone at 781-335-1925. Their kits are high quality and American made and their support is great. They used to have a website, but they told me that they kept having problems with it, so they took it down.

Good luck!
 
On the Alternator, was a 1 wire alternator installed? If so, that may the problem. A one wire alternator does NOT run a reference wire back to the battery. This wire compares the battery voltage to the voltage being produced by the alternator and adjusts the charging rate to make sure the battery is fully charged. This system works ok for street rods and cars with a low current demand but is not recommended for for cars with power windows, A/C etc.
 
This may sound like a strange question, but since A/C has been added does your car want to run warm at an idle? If so, you might be able to solve a few issues at one time. To replace the eccentric cam for the mechanical fuel pump the front of the engine must be opened up. In doing so the water pump must be removed giving you the opportunity to upgrade to a high volume water pump. Next the water pump spacer (a Thunderbird thing) needs to be removed which gives you the opportunity to replace the spacer with a re-designed one to allow more water flow at an idle. After that the timing cover can be removed to access the camshaft.
 
Mr. Bill said:
Thanks for the info ,you are not the first to tell me about the unreliability of the electric fuel pump. My mechanic said that the bumps on the cam shaft that gets the mechanical fuel pump moving and keeps it going has warn down and does not get the fuel pump moving all the time hit or miss so rather then welding new spots on the cam shaft he added the electric fuel pump, which is giving me just as if not more problems. I may go back and have him add a new mechanical fuel pump and weld the bumps necessary to drive the fuel pump.
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If your mechanic told you that about the fuel pump and cam, you better get a new mechanic because he doesn't know anything about a YBlock engine. The fuel pump is driven by an eccentric bolted to the front of the cam and I never heard of one wearing out. Seen a number of high mileage Y's and the eccentrics only have marks on it. Lots of oil at that spot.
 
Here is a picture of the fuel pump eccentric cam that bolts to the front of the cam shaft.

doug7740
1955 Thunderbird Blue

Fuel Pump Eccentric Cam.jpg
 
Critterpainer said:
This may sound like a strange question, but since A/C has been added does your car want to run warm at an idle? If so, you might be able to solve a few issues at one time. To replace the eccentric cam for the mechanical fuel pump the front of the engine must be opened up. In doing so the water pump must be removed giving you the opportunity to upgrade to a high volume water pump. Next the water pump spacer (a Thunderbird thing) needs to be removed which gives you the opportunity to replace the spacer with a re-designed one to allow more water flow at an idle. After that the timing cover can be removed to access the camshaft.
Click to expand...
My water pump is an off the shelf one I bought some years ago. It is not a "high volume" water pump. I have the stock spacer not the aftermarket spacer with a redesigned volute. My car runs at about 190-195 on the highway at 70-75 mph and around town in stop and go traffic it is the same. I only need my auxiliary fan on a long uphill with the A/C on on a hot day. In parades the electric aux. fan is rarely needed. I think the redesigned spacer makes sense to reduce cavitation. Cavitation is the bane of efficient water flow/ water transfer. As for the water pump I do not see a necessity for myself. I also do not have an aftermarket undersize pulley to increase water pump speed and resulting flow. My radiator is a copper not aluminum core. I find more problems with T-birds running hot because they are not in proper tune. It is quite common for the old vacuum advance to fail and not give full advance. I also find timing to be an issue with overheating cars. The book may say one thing but life can be another. As a backup I like to verify proper timing with a vacuum gauge. there are of course a number of reasons a Thunderbird runs hot. These are just a couple of them. Some are simple like a sticking choke. Along that avenue a stuck valve in the passenger side exhaust can cause problems. Yet another problem I have observed is the engine re-builder not installing the head gaskets properly. They have a specific orientation and if installed wrong can impede water flow and cause overheating. When I hear hoof-beats I look for horses first, not zebras. By this I mean that I look at the obvious problems first and don't go off the deep end with the "what ifs" of problem causes.
 
Paul hit the nail on the head. The first thing I would do is find a new mechanic. Even if it had the style cam with its own fuel pump lobe, which it doesn't, welding it up is outright rediculas.
 
Can anyone provide me with a good part number for an alternator that will mount on a 1956 T-Bird to replace the generator. Thanks.
 
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