1957 Ignition problem

[John R. Dulin]

I have a 1957 Ford Thunderbird 312 automatic. Sometimes when I go to start it up it acts as if there is no power (current) going to the starter from the battery. Only the oil light comes on to show that there is a connection. A couple of hours later; or perhaps the next day I can turn the key and it cranks right up. I suspect that this might have to do with the neutral safety switch. The battery cables are tight. Does anyone else have any idea?

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[Ward 57]

It could be burnt points in your starter relay. Most people don't understand there are moving parts and contacts just like in your distributor. A good test would to short the connection from the battery post to the starter post when it's actin up and see if it cranks every time. A jumper cable would be a good choice as you will be delivering some good amperage. Expect some sparks when you connect (normal) If it does I'd suspect the relay/solenoid. many people who take road trips keep one in the trunk. Not expensive and easy to swap out.

 

[74 Harley]

Are you getting a click, or no sound at all? Remember when checking the battery cables to check both ends. Often there is a bad connection at the block or on the starter itself. If it clicks then like Ward said, check solonoid. If no click check the neutral safety switch.

 

[paul5456]

When it did not start, have you moved the shift lever around and it started? Make sure that the neutral safety switch is adjusted properly.

 

[Ward 57]

Are you getting a click, or no sound at all? Remember when checking the battery cables to check both ends. Often there is a bad connection at the block or on the starter itself. If it clicks then like Ward said, check solonoid. If no click check the neutral safety switch.

A click would indicate the solenoid/relay is working and then it's a connection issue. If it cranks when jumped it points to the relay/solenoid.

 

[vermbird]

check all your grounds, take off all terminals on battery, clean them, and clean bat neg to block surfaces. also consider running a ground cable from the neg battery to the bell housing so shorter way for the current to flow thru the bell housing rather than thru the block to the starter.

 

[John R. Dulin]

There is no clicking at all, just dead silence. I had the ignition switch replaced about four months ago thinking that might be the problem.

 

[74 Harley]

Try wiggling the shifter, if that helps your neutral safety switch may need adjustment or replacement. If still nothing you can test the wire at the solenoid the make sure you're getting power to the solenoid.
If you don't get power at the solenoid, you need to trace back and find out if you get power to the nss.
Good luck, and keep us posted.

 

[Ward 57]

I have a 1957 Ford Thunderbird 312 automatic. Sometimes when I go to start it up it acts as if there is no power (current) going to the starter from the battery. Only the oil light comes on to show that there is a connection. A couple of hours later; or perhaps the next day I can turn the key and it cranks right up. I suspect that this might have to do with the neutral safety switch. The battery cables are tight. Does anyone else have any idea?

I'd still try bypassing the solenoid to see if it cranks. when you first turn on the ignition the gen light should glow along with the oil light. Could be a loose wire on the ign switch itself but you said you had the problem before replacing the switch or an intermittent connection to the solenoid or even power to the switch. I've had my '57 for over 40 yrs and never had a problem with the safety switch.

 

[CSPIDY]

The cable from the starter relay to the starter is prone to loosing the insulation from the heat where it passes the right exhaust manifold, then could be shorting out against the clamp.

 

[cscolastico]

Hi all. Had a very strange thing happen. Was going to change my fuel pump so I was trying to get my engine to TDC, as I read this would make it easier to install a new pump. In doing so I removed the distributor cap so I could line up the rotor with the #1 cylinder. As I goosed the ignition to turn the rotor, there was arching from the coil to the block ( I believe). Anyway, I think something got fried because the engine started to crank and would not stop cranking even when I removed the the key from the ignition and shifted out of neutral. I had to actually disconnect the battery before the engine stopped cranking. Every time I connected the battery ( I have a quick disconnect), the engine would crank on its own with the car in park and the key out of the ignition switch. I disconnected the starter from the solenoid and reconnected the battery. The car did not crank, but I did notice that the oil and gen light were lit as though I put the key in the ignition switch and turned the ignition on. Could I have damaged the ignition switch? does this sound like an ignition switch problem? What else might it be. How hard is it to replace the switch. Any help would be appreciated with this crazy problem. Thanks

 

[Ward 57]

Sounds more like the starter solenoid. Appox.$35-40 at almost any auto parts store. They have electromagnetic solenoid actuated points inside which can burn and melt together.

 

[Cuul59]

Lots of good advice here from everyone. Let me add that if you use a battery cutoff switch (I do on both my birds), it could be the culprit. Try taking it off and connecting the battery cable directly to the battery and see what happens. Good luck. Neil

 

[Ward 57]

Lots of good advice here from everyone. Let me add that if you use a battery cutoff switch (I do on both my birds), it could be the culprit. Try taking it off and connecting the battery cable directly to the battery and see what happens. Good luck. Neil

I disagree. Once that connection is broken at the battery everything is dead. just pull the Ign. wire off the solenoid and the indicator lights go off, sure sign there is feedback from the starter solenoid. many people who go on long trips keep a spare as they are inexpensive and can cause havoc when they go bad.
A quick cut-off switch at the battery is a very inexpensive and reliable unit that could actually save your car.

 

[nowistoday]

Hey everyone! I am new to the forum, and just got a 1957 312 automatic from my dad (that I've been waiting for my whole life). The car ran great for the first time but then has since not been able to start. I'm worried that much of what has been mentioned here is applicable (starter motor / solenoid or wiring being a problem). I've been able to get the car running well once, but once I got it back into my garage I have not had luck. Bought a new battery and it was able to get started but again since has remained dormant.

I am attaching a few videos of what the engine looks like when I try to start it (distinct clicking noise) and a few pictures of the solenoid which seemed caked in paint. I'm going to be bringing in the car for servicing or getting it towed to the garage here in Chicago, but I wanted to ask any advice on what I should inform the technicians that I need help fixing. Any chance this is familiar to any of you? Any advice for me on getting some of this tested? I'm not familiar as much with the mentions of how to short the connection so any explanation is greatly appreciated.

Thank you in advance - Tedd

 

[74 Harley]

If your battery is fully charged you either have bad connections on your battery cables ( both ends) or a bad starter.
That clicking is the solenoid.

 

[nowistoday]

If your battery is fully charged you either have bad connections on your battery cables ( both ends) or a bad starter.
That clicking is the solenoid.

Thank you and I thought that would or could be the case - I'll be taking it over to Ford to get it all fixed as I worry about doing it myself. Feels like replacing the cables and starter is the best bet to begin. (plus replacing the transmission gasket amongst a few other problems I spotted).

I appreciate the help and taking a look!

 

[74 Harley]

These cars are very simple to work on. You can do this, we're here to help. You really can't hurt anything, all you have to do is be careful.

 

[Ward 57]

These cars are very simple to work on. You can do this, we're here to help. You really can't hurt anything, all you have to do is be careful.

I agree, but you have to be somewhat mechanically inclined, have a shop manual, basic knowledge on how all the systems work, curiosity and a basic set of tools. For someone's first venture it can be daunting. We veterans didn't learn this craft overnight. Asking questions is the first step to enlightenment.
I'm 69yo, have had my T-Bird for 45+ years, been a shade tree mechanic since my teens and still learning.

 

[dmsfrr]

There is a potential weak spot in the original battery cable routing of a '57 that may be part of the problem.
There are 2 large cables that provide (+) power to the soleniod & starter, and two more large diameter cables that complete the Ground half of the circuit back to the battery from the starter.
All eight ends of these four cables must have clean and tight connections for the system to work well.

The often unnoticed 'weak link' in these cables is poor connections in the Ground cables for the body, engine & starter. The Negative battery cable fastens to the firewall just behind the battery, and 4 inches to the right of the master cylinder another negative/ground cable connects the firewall to the engine.
This detour of the negative battery cable to the firewall before it connects to the engine & starter adds extra spots where corrosion can develop relatively unnoticed.
Due to the high current needed to turn the starter and engine all the connections must be clean (metal to metal) and tight to work their best.

I'm assuming the engine compartment was repainted some time in the past as the black color doesn't match the exterior of the car. The extra paint may interfere with the starter solenoid being electrically grounded to the firewall. This can prevent it from working as it should.
In your 5th photo I'm seeing a clipped off red wire that could have connected to the solenoid and a White wire that would have originally been Red with a blue stripe, fastened to the S terminal.
12v power to the S terminal is what triggers the starter solenoid to supply power the starter. Diagram attached below...