1959 Brake conversion to disc brakes.

[PaulB]

I am wanting to convert my 59 from drum brakes to disc brakes for better stopping power. So my first question to any of you that has done this conversion, did it make a significant difference in your braking and stopping power? Second question do I need to change my master cylinder to a dual reservoir? I've gotten mixed opinions on that, so I'd thought I'd ask you experts. Any other things I should know? Thanks

 

[74 Harley]

Disk brakes actually need a dual master cylinder. As far as stopping power that will largely be determined by how well you keep up on the adjustment of your drum brakes, how well your booster works, and if you have sufficient vacuum.
I will not be converting my '62 to disk. And I am building a tri power 390, or maybe a 410 for it.
As a young man, I used to drive my '61 at stupid speeds. Braking from 120 isn't that scary after a few dozen times. The car had more brakes than I had brains. Luckily we both survived.

 

[PaulB]

Disk brakes actually need a dual master cylinder. As far as stopping power that will largely be determined by how well you keep up on the adjustment of your drum brakes, how well your booster works, and if you have sufficient vacuum.
I will not be converting my '62 to disk. And I am building a tri power 390, or maybe a 410 for it.
As a young man, I used to drive my '61 at stupid speeds. Braking from 120 isn't that scary after a few dozen times. The car had more brakes than I had brains. Luckily we both survived.

The power brake booster is under the dash I believe because it is not on the firewall. I'm told it is a MAJOR pain and job to remove and replace it. Is there a way to test the booster to see if it is working properly without removing it?

 

[74 Harley]

You could try doing a vacuum leak down test.

 

[59tbirddavid]

If you have the original firewall mounted air conditioning, you will not be able to use most kits sold that supply a vacuum booster. The boosters are usually 8 inches in diameter and won’t fit with firewall a/c unit. I can tell you where to buy an expansion valve if you need. Summit sells a dual master cylinder with rear brake bias adjustment, Leeds Brakes. I you have the Kelsey Hayes bellows under dash brake booster leave it there if you have firewall mounted a/c. There are many disc brake kits, use a brand name , they are listed at Summit. Summit also sells steel wheels that will fit over kits that allow you to keep 14” wheels and original hub caps. Use flexible non expanding brake hoses, polypropylene that is stainless braided protected. Project is tough, especially under the dash, not overly expensive considering stopping power gained.
I am happy with results. Plan carefull.

 

[Rick Worth]

It is very simple to see if your booster is working, drive it and stop. Then disconnect and plug the vacuum line to it, drive it and stop. You don't need an experienced mechanic to do that. As for brake systems.

Dual verses single is kind of an arguing point. The idea of dual is to make it safer. The idea is if you lose half your brakes you can still stop, however that only works if you lose the rears. The fronts however do 95% of your stopping so if you lose the fronts,(50/50 chance), you're not stopping. In all my cars I do switch to duals but I'm a mechanic and it's easy for me to design and switch the system. I bought my '65 Econoline a year ago and drive it daily with manual single drum brakes and have no stopping issues, I just painted it last week and will do a few upgrades now including dual power brakes. But I love to tinker.

As for drum to disc, The only negatives to drums are' #1 if you are going to race it, they don't like repetitive braking. they get hot and glaze over the shoes and you lose brake power. #2 back in the day when the roads sucked wading threw deep puddles will lubricate the shoes and they wont stop until you drag the pedal for a while to dry them out. My '65 Falcon, '65 Econoline, and '76 CJ are all Drums and have never had this happen on any of them over the last 10 years.. #3 you have to maintain the brake adjustment on drums where discs adjust themselves. If you know how to use your self adjusters the drums will adjust themselves very well. I always check mine when I have it up in the air doing their oil changes.

I'm '70 years old , have literally had over 100 cars from the '50's to the '70's and have NEVER done a disc conversion to any of them, Have converted most of them to dual master, and did a few power conversions mostly because they were easy to do and you don't have to push as hard on the pedal.

Just my .70 cents. inflation, you know?

 

[74 Harley]

A dual master cylinder is not any safer than a single. Lose any one brake line and you have no brakes at all. Maybe you don't remember the bleeding process...

 

[PaulB]

If you have the original firewall mounted air conditioning, you will not be able to use most kits sold that supply a vacuum booster. The boosters are usually 8 inches in diameter and won’t fit with firewall a/c unit. I can tell you where to buy an expansion valve if you need. Summit sells a dual master cylinder with rear brake bias adjustment, Leeds Brakes. I you have the Kelsey Hayes bellows under dash brake booster leave it there if you have firewall mounted a/c. There are many disc brake kits, use a brand name , they are listed at Summit. Summit also sells steel wheels that will fit over kits that allow you to keep 14” wheels and original hub caps. Use flexible non expanding brake hoses, polypropylene that is stainless braided protected. Project is tough, especially under the dash, not overly expensive considering stopping power gained.
I am happy with results. Plan carefull.

Thank you. That helps a lot. I do not have A/C so sounds like I'm going under the dash. Gulp.

 

[PaulB]

It is very simple to see if your booster is working, drive it and stop. Then disconnect and plug the vacuum line to it, drive it and stop. You don't need an experienced mechanic to do that. As for brake systems.

Dual verses single is kind of an arguing point. The idea of dual is to make it safer. The idea is if you lose half your brakes you can still stop, however that only works if you lose the rears. The fronts however do 95% of your stopping so if you lose the fronts,(50/50 chance), you're not stopping. In all my cars I do switch to duals but I'm a mechanic and it's easy for me to design and switch the system. I bought my '65 Econoline a year ago and drive it daily with manual single drum brakes and have no stopping issues, I just painted it last week and will do a few upgrades now including dual power brakes. But I love to tinker.

As for drum to disc, The only negatives to drums are' #1 if you are going to race it, they don't like repetitive braking. they get hot and glaze over the shoes and you lose brake power. #2 back in the day when the roads sucked wading threw deep puddles will lubricate the shoes and they wont stop until you drag the pedal for a while to dry them out. My '65 Falcon, '65 Econoline, and '76 CJ are all Drums and have never had this happen on any of them over the last 10 years.. #3 you have to maintain the brake adjustment on drums where discs adjust themselves. If you know how to use your self adjusters the drums will adjust themselves very well. I always check mine when I have it up in the air doing their oil changes.

I'm '70 years old , have literally had over 100 cars from the '50's to the '70's and have NEVER done a disc conversion to any of them, Have converted most of them to dual master, and did a few power conversions mostly because they were easy to do and you don't have to push as hard on the pedal.

Just my .70 cents. inflation, you know?

Huge information thank you. Question; is the vacuum line under the dash? I'm not seeing anything under the hood. I'm starting to believe my booster may be defective or leaking. I have soft brakes and the pedal goes almost to the floor. I have replaced a leaking wheel cylinder and bled and adjusted all the brakes. But the pedal is still soft. Stopping power is so so. If I had to hit the brakes suddenly and hard I'm sure I would bottom out on the floor board. I thought disc brakes was the answer, but after reading your reply I'm not so sure. Thanks again.

 

[59tbirddavid]

That isn’t a bad thing ,the new canister boosters produce much more pressure, better braking than the old bellows units. The Leeds master cylinder requires two studs for mounting, Fords original master cylinder has 4 stud mount. You will use 2 studs. Also be sure to use blaster on threads holding master cylinder to fire wall, studs are cage mounted, you don’t want to break cages.

 

[74 Harley]

You may need a master cylinder

 

[PaulB]

I want to convert my TBird to disc brakes and want to know beyond the disc conversion kit itself like the one in the link below, what else do i need? I know i should change to a dual master cylinder, but so far i am unable to find one. Anyone know a good source? Do i need to change my brake lines too and where do i find those? why don't they sell these kits all in one covering everything you need?

Wilwood 140-13653: Dynalite Classic Series Front Brake Kit 1960-68 Full-Size Ford, Mercury, Edsel - JEGS

Get the Best Performance with Wilwood Dynalite Classic Series Front Brake Kit 1960-68 Full-Size Ford, Mercury, Edsel 140-13653 parts at JEGS. Shop Now at the Guaranteed Lowest Price!

www.jegs.com