1964 Fuel pump for E10 Ethanol fuel

Daniel Riseborough

Daniel Riseborough

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Thunderbird Year
1964
Hello everyone I live in the UK and have had my 64 tbird for a year,
As of September this year the UK government is introducing a new fuel E10 which contains 10% ethanol as of the E5 which only contains 5%. They will keep selling E5 for 5 more years before it'll be totally E10.
And the sale of E5 will now be classed as super premium only so a good 15p(22 cents) per litre more
There isn't alot of information for older cars other than any car older than 2011 could be effected.
Does the US have E10,
What should I do.
Any help is appreciated.
 

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If your engine has been updated in the past with hard exhaust seats you're pretty good. The only other issue may be alcohol can be hard on carburetor seals and you may have to rebuild it more frequently.
 
The engine is still very original with 94k miles, the engine has been rebuilt but not converted or updated in any way.
E10 potentially can cause more corrosive water problems in the fuel tanks, lines, valve covers, carbs
E10 also absorbs much more moisture hence the conundrum.
That's all I seem to read could could could.
 
Daniel Riseborough said:
Does the US have E10,
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Yes, the US has had E10 at most stations since 2010. (You can find this information via google.com) Also, in the US we have ethanol-free gasoline which is often used for boats or other specialized engines. I doubt they would outlaw that, but you can only get it at certain stations because it requires a special tank/pump that has always been ethanol-free.
 
That is not so bad. You can have the tank lined. But do think about getting hard seats put in the heads for the exhaust valves since leaded fuel is not available.
 
I would say that the E 10 could cause condensation issues And rubber and other gaskets. Use plenty of fuel conditioners and be prepared to have to replace several parts eventually with ethanol resistant parts Fuel pump etc..
 
I have been using E10 for over 20 years in my antique motorcycle and cars. I use Marvel Mystery Oil as a additive. No problems. You can put in harden valve seats. Why waste the money
 
I think there is a misunderstanding going on about the water absorption properties of the alcohol. It will not create water pockets. It absorbs (and dilutes) water so it passes through the system.
The purpose of lead in fuel was to lubricate the valves. In engines designed for lead free fuel they have hardened seats. Soft seats will erode over time, depending on your driving habits. If your car is only used occasionally you can go a long time without worry.
By the way, I spent a good number of years working at a Ford authorized remanufacturing facility. Cylinder heads were a specialty of mine.
 
74 Harley said:
I think there is a misunderstanding going on about the water absorption properties of the alcohol. It will not create water pockets. It absorbs (and dilutes) water so it passes through the system.
The purpose of lead in fuel was to lubricate the valves. In engines designed for lead free fuel they have hardened seats. Soft seats will erode over time, depending on your driving habits. If your car is only used occasionally you can go a long time without worry.
By the way, I spent a good number of years working at a Ford authorized remanufacturing facility. Cylinder heads were a specialty of mine.
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@74 Harley , would you happen to know what year Ford started putting hardened valve seats in the FE 390? Thanks,

64ZCODE
 
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@64ZCODE ,it started late 1971, there were some D1ae heads, but the majority were D2TE-AA.
 
As the U.S. has E10 for many years, most the the carb parts and other fuel related items have been manufactured with that in mind. This included repair parts. Hoses, gaskets and such have been upgraded. As far a degrading items like tanks, can't find this to be true. I have been running E10 in all my cars (old and new) for many years. Nothing has degraded.

All rubber hoses, if old, should be changed to ones that are E10 compatible. Same with carbs - should be rebuilt with E10 compatible parts and gaskets.
 
I will check it out sooner than later 74 harley. Otherwise I'll be left with 2 choices either an expensive garden ornament or sell it. Or the 3rd option is to hold it as long as fuel is available and then get it converted to full electric.
The future looks bleek for the future of cars in the UK all electric by 2030 and the easing of fuel beyond that. Classic cars will only be museum pieces unless you can afford the electric engines.
I asked 2 months ago the guy estimated it would cost around 65k pounds to make the engine electric for the tbird as its still new technology. And I've been reading more and more E5 will be phased out within 5 to 10 years with E10 being the all round option.
 
Don't park it or change out the motor to electric. unless they ban gasoline all together )You will never get any return on your investment. As many have stated here they rarely have had any problems. I had to rebuild my carburetor and fuel pump but that had to due with age as much as the alcohol. A few manageable bills versus MANY thousands to keep it on the road.
 
Daniel Riseborough said:
I will check it out sooner than later 74 harley. Otherwise I'll be left with 2 choices either an expensive garden ornament or sell it. Or the 3rd option is to hold it as long as fuel is available and then get it converted to full electric.
The future looks bleek for the future of cars in the UK all electric by 2030 and the easing of fuel beyond that. Classic cars will only be museum pieces unless you can afford the electric engines.
I asked 2 months ago the guy estimated it would cost around 65k pounds to make the engine electric for the tbird as its still new technology. And I've been reading more and more E5 will be phased out within 5 to 10 years with E10 being the all round option.
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There's a business here in the US, focused on Ford F150s, that converts gas engines to electric. They replace the gas motor and mount batteries and controls. But that's the extent of it, they're not putting electric motors on each wheel. You might end up with more torque and power than the current gas motor - theoretically.
 
Yes in a way if you was to put in a 120v motor you could potentially reach double the hp that it originally has. And save hundreds of kilos in weight but you'd deffo have to seal up the engine bay as there's no need for the engine as a frunk will stop the wind resistance. In the giant hole.
The other sucky thing is I didn't know electric engines make hardly any noise.
So the roar of a v8 will be a past luxury.
 
Daniel Riseborough said:
Yes in a way if you was to put in a 120v motor you could potentially reach double the hp that it originally has. And save hundreds of kilos in weight but you'd deffo have to seal up the engine bay as there's no need for the engine as a frunk will stop the wind resistance. In the giant hole.
The other sucky thing is I didn't know electric engines make hardly any noise.
So the roar of a v8 will be a past luxury.
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Oh lordy! I guess sound effects of a V8 burble won't be the same...
 
I have been thinking imagine you did get an electric engine installed there wouldn't be any more 7mpg which a gallon in the UK is around 6 odd bucks each, it would be 250 plus miles on a full charge. And you could use it literally All day every day for 10 bucks a full recharge of 250 miles or so. I do around 30 miles per day.
But you have to sacrifice the v8 sound.
What's more important the looks or the sound.
 
Hey Daniel. I guess we are where we are and your TBird is a gasser. It should be getting upwards of 12 miles per gallon though, whether you're running 100% gas or an ethanol blend, and if you can achieve that then your operating cost would go down.

Me, I love the V8 rumble. But it might really be something to get passed by a silent TBird.

Doug
 
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This is an interesting thread, someday all cars may be electric, but I am not really worried yet. Nobody wants to talk about the fact that no industrialized nation that I know of has the capability to add that load to the power grid. It will take billions of dollars and probably 20 years to do it. But there is a lot of interesting ideas here.
 
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