1957 Brakes requiring a lot of pedal pressure

[flbuild]

Does anyone have a 57 that stops with light brake pressure?

Bought mine a little while ago, had the undercarriage reworked, the engine rebuilt (another frustrating story), and had the brake booster rebuilt...…..Have aftermarket discs on the front (reconsider if you're thinking about it) and while it stops now, it seems to require more pressure that I thought would be normal.

Would be curious to know if anyone has one that is happy with the brakes and can make an emergency stop without a lot of effort. If you've done something interesting to make that happen, would sure appreciate some tips/advice?

Thanks for any insight....

 

[Wilding]

Does anyone have a 57 that stops with light brake pressure?

Bought mine a little while ago, had the undercarriage reworked, the engine rebuilt (another frustrating story), and had the brake booster rebuilt...…..Have aftermarket discs on the front (reconsider if you're thinking about it) and while it stops now, it seems to require more pressure that I thought would be normal.

Would be curious to know if anyone has one that is happy with the brakes and can make an emergency stop without a lot of effort. If you've done something interesting to make that happen, would sure appreciate some tips/advice?

Thanks for any insight....

I have the same problem on my '57 and I feel better that I'm not alone. New drums, new shoes, rebuilt booster and I can't lock the wheels. Requires excess pressure on the pedal just to stop quickly. I know drums are not even close to discs but I grew up with drums and I don't remember them being this bad. I'm not positive the booster is actually working, it doesn't drop slightly on start up. I'm going through my brakes again looking for anything amiss. I was considering the switch to discs, maybe not after your comments. I hope someone out there has some advise. I'll keep in touch.

 

[597LSCJ]

Does anyone have a 57 that stops with light brake pressure?

Bought mine a little while ago, had the undercarriage reworked, the engine rebuilt (another frustrating story), and had the brake booster rebuilt...…..Have aftermarket discs on the front (reconsider if you're thinking about it) and while it stops now, it seems to require more pressure that I thought would be normal.

Would be curious to know if anyone has one that is happy with the brakes and can make an emergency stop without a lot of effort. If you've done something interesting to make that happen, would sure appreciate some tips/advice?

Thanks for any insight....

Several things can have an impact on your brakes not working correctly. First thing is basic trouble shooting, get a pressure gauge and put it in the bleed port of the caliper and see what kind of pressure you are making at the caliper. You should have between 800 and 1000 psi when applying the brakes in a panic stop type situation. Another issue that can have a negative impact on your brakes is lack of vacuum, get a gauge see how much vacuum is present at the power booster less than 18 incles of vacuum and your booster is not going to be operating properly. The two are connected lack of vacuum wiill cause a shortage of pressure at the caliper.

 

[Philt]

Does anyone have a 57 that stops with light brake pressure?

Bought mine a little while ago, had the undercarriage reworked, the engine rebuilt (another frustrating story), and had the brake booster rebuilt...…..Have aftermarket discs on the front (reconsider if you're thinking about it) and while it stops now, it seems to require more pressure that I thought would be normal.

Would be curious to know if anyone has one that is happy with the brakes and can make an emergency stop without a lot of effort. If you've done something interesting to make that happen, would sure appreciate some tips/advice?

Thanks for any insight....

Hello from Tenn,
Wish I could offer some encouragement but looking for a brake solution myself. Bought a 56 bird a few months ago. seller said he had rebuilt the brake ( drums) system including new booster. But the brakes grabbed, hard when ever you asked for more than moderate braking. Also noticed that warming the brakes made some difference. Pulled the drums and all looked relatively fresh. cylinders ,flex lines looked almost new. So bled all five points, scuffed and cleaned all drums and shoes then adjusted and adjusted the shoes with some improvement.
It seems unlikely almost new shoes would grab after being sanded but next I will replace the shoes.
Any recent experience with a disc brake conversion? Will I need to replace my stock steel wheels?

 

[597LSCJ]

Hello from Tenn,
Wish I could offer some encouragement but looking for a brake solution myself. Bought a 56 bird a few months ago. seller said he had rebuilt the brake ( drums) system including new booster. But the brakes grabbed, hard when ever you asked for more than moderate braking. Also noticed that warming the brakes made some difference. Pulled the drums and all looked relatively fresh. cylinders ,flex lines looked almost new. So bled all five points, scuffed and cleaned all drums and shoes then adjusted and adjusted the shoes with some improvement.
It seems unlikely almost new shoes would grab after being sanded but next I will replace the shoes.
Any recent experience with a disc brake conversion? Will I need to replace my stock steel wheels?

What looks good from the outside is not necessarily an indication of what is going on inside. The wheel cylinders should be inspected to make sure that the internal pistons are moving freely in the wheel cylinder. Many of the these older cars sit for long periods of time and accumulate moisture resulting in rust, corrosion and freezing things in place. In more than one instance I have seen where there has been a mix of DOT 3 or 4 combined with DOT 5 that really gums thing up. You won't know how the wheel cylinder looks internally until you look. These systems are actually very basic, it's just making sure that everything is functioning the way is was intended.

 

[flbuild]

Does anyone have a 57 that stops with light brake pressure?

Bought mine a little while ago, had the undercarriage reworked, the engine rebuilt (another frustrating story), and had the brake booster rebuilt...…..Have aftermarket discs on the front (reconsider if you're thinking about it) and while it stops now, it seems to require more pressure that I thought would be normal.

Would be curious to know if anyone has one that is happy with the brakes and can make an emergency stop without a lot of effort. If you've done something interesting to make that happen, would sure appreciate some tips/advice?

Thanks for any insight....

 

[flbuild]

I guess was too cryptic when I mentioned reconsider installing discs on the front..….. The reason was: On my car, one wheel doesn't match the other wheels because the rim scrapes on the calipers...…, trying to find a rim that fit was a mess and finally found one but don't really know its origin, except they were ford.....The rim has to be deeper than the standard rim...….Now in one direction when turning, there is a slight rub against the wheel well when cranking it hard left......I would surmise that trying to put discs on the rear is certain disaster since one has to find the right width tire just to keep it from rubbing against the fender skirts.....

Regardless, had the brake booster rebuilt, and couldn't find a new one to buy......I'm sure there must be a "power brake" solution that some clever fellow with real specialized knowledge to put together that would incorporate a modern (dare I say even with ABS) power brake system from a more modern car, but I sure couldn't find anyone near me willing to give it a try....and I'm too old to want to tear it apart myself.....Just want to drive...…...From my limited experience, the first hurdle would be matching a fabrication so the master cylinder would be in position so the brake pedal linkage would begin the process, the second would be finding calipers that wouldn't interfere with the steering, and fit some appropriate rims and tires.....

If anyone is ambitious enough to give it a go, please do a favor to all of us "dragging our feet" to make it stop like my new Lincoln and tell us how to do it....You'll be admired by all.

Best of Luck to All

 

[Philt]

To 597LSCJ
We agree auto brakes are relatively simple which makes this a bit frustrating. When I pulled the drums , I had the brakes pumped and checked the action of the cylinders. The forward strut for the forward or primary shoe on each cylinder moves first then sightly later the rear strut moves on the secondary shoe.
Any old ford guys offer a mechanics guide on how much drag to adjust into the shoes? the car wants to plow when brake applied. Next stop is the alignment shop and check on the quality of the front end rebuild.
Hope to get a few more things completed in time for cruising season.

 

[Clif57]

Had the same problem with my 57. While the brake lights work, they worked only with lots of pressure on the pedal. Very seldom do I come to a stop where I have to apply lots of pressure. To remediate the issue, I bought a Mechanical Brake Light Switch ( Part # 13480MK) from Classic Auto Supply in Ohio. Resolved the problem... Although installing it under the dash so it doesn’t show was a -----.

 

[KlinksGarage]

I guess was too cryptic when I mentioned reconsider installing discs on the front..….. The reason was: On my car, one wheel doesn't match the other wheels because the rim scrapes on the calipers...…, trying to find a rim that fit was a mess and finally found one but don't really know its origin, except they were ford.....The rim has to be deeper than the standard rim...….Now in one direction when turning, there is a slight rub against the wheel well when cranking it hard left......I would surmise that trying to put discs on the rear is certain disaster since one has to find the right width tire just to keep it from rubbing against the fender skirts.....

Regardless, had the brake booster rebuilt, and couldn't find a new one to buy......I'm sure there must be a "power brake" solution that some clever fellow with real specialized knowledge to put together that would incorporate a modern (dare I say even with ABS) power brake system from a more modern car, but I sure couldn't find anyone near me willing to give it a try....and I'm too old to want to tear it apart myself.....Just want to drive...…...From my limited experience, the first hurdle would be matching a fabrication so the master cylinder would be in position so the brake pedal linkage would begin the process, the second would be finding calipers that wouldn't interfere with the steering, and fit some appropriate rims and tires.....

If anyone is ambitious enough to give it a go, please do a favor to all of us "dragging our feet" to make it stop like my new Lincoln and tell us how to do it....You'll be admired by all.

Best of Luck to All

Hi. I have a 57. I have converted the front to calipers using the kit available at macs Ford. They scrape on the original rims but 1989 to 98 hilux standard rims are a good replacement apparently. I will know more in a couple of weeks. Also I used the standard master cylinder but removed the pressure return valve inside and put an inline pressure value in the rear brake line(because I still have drums in the rear) so that the front discs release... good luck

 

[OhioTbird]

I don't have any of the brake issues on my 57. It was fully restored when I bought it late 2019 so I can't claim that I worked on the brakes. Still have the drums, not disk.

 

[rponfick]

I have just acquired a '57, and the brakes seem to operate poorly, and not until the pedal was near the floor. The car has 4 wheel drum brakes with a factory power booster. All wheels have new shoes and cylinders, a new master cylinder, single outlet. I have bled the fitting on the booster. I have only bled the rear so far, and the pedal pressure has not seemed to change.
My question is, what does your pedal feel like with the car not running with good brakes? Should you have firm pedal from the top of it's movement, or does that not occur until the car is running and the booster operating? I have bled many cars before, but none with the TBird power system. I always felt firm pressure after bleeding whether the car is running or not. Is the Bird different?
Any comments?
Thanks, Ralph

 

[Ward 57]

No, the system is pretty generic. My suspicion is that the brake shoes are not adjusted correctly or not installed properly. Yes, you should have a hard pedal at the top of it's travel. According to the shop manual pump the brakes a few times to bleed of any vacuum and then when starting you should feel the pedal drop slightly indicating the booster is working.

 

[doug7740]

It sounds like you may have a problem with either air in the system or brakes that are in need of adjustment. You should start by bleeding the brakes. Since you have already bled the booster you should bleed the rest of the hydraulic system by starting at the wheel furthest from the master cylinder and working towards the closest. (RR-RL-FR-FL)

If bleeding the hydraulic system doesn’t raise the pedal height, try adjusting the brakes. Use an adjusting tool inserted in the backing plate slot for each wheel. Adjust until there is a slight drag on the wheel. Spin the wheel and it should stop after about 2 full rotations or less.

The 1957 Thunderbird has a unique brake system and is not the same as the 1955/56 Thunderbirds. 1957 Thunderbird front brakes have a third retract spring approximately 7.5″ long. It connects in the lower hole for the retract springs and passes below the wheel cylinder. All 1957 early and late models originally had this spring. The brake rear system is the same on all three years.

doug7740
1955 Thunderbird Blue

 

[4VE]

Does anyone have a 57 that stops with light brake pressure?

Bought mine a little while ago, had the undercarriage reworked, the engine rebuilt (another frustrating story), and had the brake booster rebuilt...…..Have aftermarket discs on the front (reconsider if you're thinking about it) and while it stops now, it seems to require more pressure that I thought would be normal.

Would be curious to know if anyone has one that is happy with the brakes and can make an emergency stop without a lot of effort. If you've done something interesting to make that happen, would sure appreciate some tips/advice?

Thanks for any insight....

I put disks all the way around on my 55. You should do the rear too. No need for the booster, mine wouldn't fit back in so I left it off. If you do this, you can set/adjust the front/rear with a proportioning valve. Replace the master cylinder with a Wilwood unit. Their valve is built into the casting. You will stop with optimum grip on the road.

 

[Ward 57]

It sounds like you may have a problem with either air in the system or brakes that are in need of adjustment. You should start by bleeding the brakes. Since you have already bled the booster you should bleed the rest of the hydraulic system by starting at the wheel furthest from the master cylinder and working towards the closest. (RR-RL-FR-FL)

If bleeding the hydraulic system doesn’t raise the pedal height, try adjusting the brakes. Use an adjusting tool inserted in the backing plate slot for each wheel. Adjust until there is a slight drag on the wheel. Spin the wheel and it should stop after about 2 full rotations or less.

The 1957 Thunderbird has a unique brake system and is not the same as the 1955/56 Thunderbirds. 1957 Thunderbird front brakes have a third retract spring approximately 7.5″ long. It connects in the lower hole for the retract springs and passes below the wheel cylinder. All 1957 early and late models originally had this spring. The brake rear system is the same on all three years.

doug7740
1955 Thunderbird Blue

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That is very interesting. I wonder why the difference? I haven't looked ay mine in years and when I replaced the pads and drums. I just made sure I watched all the parts closely, put on what I took off in order and nothing leftover.
I just shake my head with maybe some expletives after I take something apart then put it back together there are parts or fastener still on the bench.