1956 Brake issues

[RichW]

Hey Guys,

I have a ‘56 that I just imported and the car is pulling violently under braking. We have the car on a rolling road and the bias was 75/25. We have adjusted the brakes and changed the wheel cylinders and hoses, but are still at 45/25 bias, when we are looking for a 25/25. I am about to swap the hubs to see if the problem transfers with it. Other than this I am stuck.
In the past someone has changed the wheel cylinders to one’s off a 59/60 Ford, not sure if this will affect the pulling. The previous owner said the car drive well before it was shipped, which was confirmed by the independent testing company. Any ideas where I should look next?

 

[64ZCODE]

Hi Rich. If you haven't already, I'd recommend turning the front drums and replacing the brake shoes with OE shoes if you can find them. Also, inspect the front metal brake lines to make sure that they haven't been bent or crushed.

How does the brake fluid look? You could also flush and replace the fluid in the system if it looks old and cruddy.

Good luck with this, please keep us posted, and congratulations on your new acquisition. Send us pictures when you have a chance, OK?

Doug

 

[RichW]

Hi Rich. If you haven't already, I'd recommend turning the front drums and replacing the brake shoes with OE shoes if you can find them. Also, inspect the front metal brake lines to make sure that they haven't been bent or crushed.

How does the brake fluid look? You could also flush and replace the fluid in the system if it looks old and cruddy.

Good luck with this, please keep us posted, and congratulations on your new acquisition. Send us pictures when you have a chance, OK?

Doug

Hi Doug,

Thank you for your reply and very useful tips. The guy originally used Dot 5 fluid, but we have flushed and gone to Dot 4, fitted a new master cylinder, wheel cylinders and flexy hoses but are still getting problems. The metal brake lines look like new. The back brakes are at 19% each, so we are going to try putting the back hubs on the front and vice versa to see if the problem transfers to the rear. That’s if the back hubs are the same as the front.

The hub over pulling has a different moulding to the other three. We took this off and put it on the other side, but the bias didn’t move with it. This is a trying problem but it has to be fixed.

 

[64ZCODE]

Sounds good, Rich. I mention using OE brake shoes because I've had problems with aftermarket shoes that included pulling and chattering. For my '64, the OE pads are riveted, not bonded, and were made by Bendix. Bonded shoes are a problem because of the lining used and because the lining extends further around the brake shoe, causing it to grab.

Doug

 

[fordrodsteven]

Is it possible that someone did some brake work and didn't pay attention to locations of primary shoe and secondary shoe?

 

[RichW]

T

Sounds good, Rich. I mention using OE brake shoes because I've had problems with aftermarket shoes that included pulling and chattering. For my '64, the OE pads are riveted, not bonded, and were made by Bendix. Bonded shoes are a problem because of the lining used and because the lining extends further around the brake shoe, causing it to grab.

Doug

That’s interesting Doug. We never gave the shoes a second thought as they look new. It’s back up on the ramp tomorrow and I’ll check to see if they are riveted or bonded. I’ll look to change them if they are bonded. I think every detail needs to be investigated. Thank you.

 

[RichW]

Is it possible that someone did some brake work and didn't pay attention to locations of primary shoe and secondary shoe?

Hi Steven,

We did check the position of the shoes to make sure they were correctly placed as a know it can be so easy to forget. Wish it had been one of the usual fixes! My mechanic looked at the car and commented it should be an easy fix as the braking system is so basic compared to the modern cars he works on. After 10 hours of change and investigation he regrets making that comment!!

 

[fordrodsteven]

Maybe some debris in the lines on the opposite side of the car causing that side to not actuate and it pulls because the brake is working on one side and not the other?

 

[RichW]

Maybe some debris in the lines on the opposite side of the car causing that side to not actuate and it pulls because the brake is working on one side and not the other?

Yes if swapping the drums from front to back doesn’t work then it’s only the lines that haven’t been changed. A dirt restriction inside could be slowing the cylinder. I’ll flush the lines if necessary. Thanks Steven:

 

[fordrodsteven]

If the brake assemblies are put together correctly and they are correct diameter drum/brakes and have matching wheel cylinder diameters there isn't much else it could be except, in my mind, improperly adjusted brake or debris in the system causing one side to not operate. Now it is possible that you could have a very bad problem with the steering / ball joints / control arm bushings and it is moving the whole spindle so as to be trying to steer the car differently when you apply the brakes.

 

[64ZCODE]

Hi Rich. I never gave brake shoes a second thought either, just purchased ones that appeared to be good quality. But like I said, I had an issue with my '64 when I replaced the front shoes with aftermarket bonded Centric shoes. When going over 35 mph and applying the brakes, they chattered really bad and it was a dangerous situation. So I was able to find OE brake shoes through a company called NOS Parts Ltd. There's another company called Green Sales that also sells NOS parts. Anyway, I put those shoes on and problem solved. The other thing I noticed is that braking is a whole lot smoother than with the aftermarket shoes. I've been told that Bendix was the supplier originally and that Bendix brake shoes also work well.

Doug

 

[64ZCODE]

If the brake assemblies are put together correctly and they are correct diameter drum/brakes and have matching wheel cylinder diameters there isn't much else it could be except, in my mind, improperly adjusted brake or debris in the system causing one side to not operate. Now it is possible that you could have a very bad problem with the steering / ball joints / control arm bushings and it is moving the whole spindle so as to be trying to steer the car differently when you apply the brakes.

Good point re: potential suspension issue, That hadn’t occurred to me. Something that is shifting when braking?

 

[RichW]

If the brake assemblies are put together correctly and they are correct diameter drum/brakes and have matching wheel cylinder diameters there isn't much else it could be except, in my mind, improperly adjusted brake or debris in the system causing one side to not operate. Now it is possible that you could have a very bad problem with the steering / ball joints / control arm bushings and it is moving the whole spindle so as to be trying to steer the car differently when you apply the brakes.

Good point Steven. My mechanic seems to think the suspension is ok, but going on what you have said, it will be worth inspecting again.

 

[RichW]

Hi Rich. I never gave brake shoes a second thought either, just purchased ones that appeared to be good quality. But like I said, I had an issue with my '64 when I replaced the front shoes with aftermarket bonded Centric shoes. When going over 35 mph and applying the brakes, they chattered really bad and it was a dangerous situation. So I was able to find OE brake shoes through a company called NOS Parts Ltd. There's another company called Green Sales that also sells NOS parts. Anyway, I put those shoes on and problem solved. The other thing I noticed is that braking is a whole lot smoother than with the aftermarket shoes. I've been told that Bendix was the supplier originally and that Bendix brake shoes also work well.

Doug

Thanks Doug. I am learning that small changes add up here. I will go for changing to riveted shoes.

 

[randy d]

Take a good look at the upper a-fame bushings. They are often worn out on these cars. During brake application the arm shifts, moving the upper ball joint and changing the caster angle several degrees, causing extreme pull. A fairly cheap fix. Doubtful it is a shoe or hydraulic problem.

 

[RichW]

Thanks Randy. It certainly looks like it’s non brake related as we have changed a lot of the components without completely getting rid of the problem. Is there a way of testing the upper a frame bushings to see if they are worn?

 

[randy d]

Usually you can see the worn eccentric shape where the upper shaft enters the inner a-arm bushing from under the hood. You can physically check by jacking on the lower arm as far out as possible to keep the spring loaded then wrestle the top of the tire in and out looking for motion and/or clunk. You may be hearing the clunk as you are driving and applying the brakes also. Certainly lower bushings or ball joints could also be a cause, but my experience with this era ford suspensions has been nearly always the upper ones. Check both sides, as the pull is likely being caused by unequal caster from one side to the other, so the car may not pull to the side the worn part is on. There are a few other suspension possibilities but I would suggest chasing this one first. Hope this helps.

 

[RichW]

Usually you can see the worn eccentric shape where the upper shaft enters the inner a-arm bushing from under the hood. You can physically check by jacking on the lower arm as far out as possible to keep the spring loaded then wrestle the top of the tire in and out looking for motion and/or clunk. You may be hearing the clunk as you are driving and applying the brakes also. Certainly lower bushings or ball joints could also be a cause, but my experience with this era ford suspensions has been nearly always the upper ones. Check both sides, as the pull is likely being caused by unequal caster from one side to the other, so the car may not pull to the side the worn part is on. There are a few other suspension possibilities but I would suggest chasing this one first. Hope this helps.

Hi Randy,

Thank you for your clear explanation. The checks look straightforward to carry out and I will get to it during the week.