1955 engines stalls when starting sometimes

ion

ion

Active Member
Last seen
Joined
Jan 9, 2021
Thunderbird Year
1955
Hi All, I have a strange problem with my '55 that no one has been able to figure out so far. About half the time, starting the cold engine, the engine catches just fine, idles around 1000rpm for a while until it warms up then drops to slightly lower idle. I can drive around all day, turn off the engine, restart, no problems once it's warm. The other half the time, starting from a cold engine, the engine turns over and catches, but idles so low (<500 rpm) that if I take my foot off the gas it immediately stalls. Also sounds very ragged. I can sit there with my foot on the gas waiting for the engine to warm up, but it doesn't help, still the same fatally low idle. Give up, shut it down, come back 4-5 hours or maybe a day later, and everything is OK again. I've had it looked at by pro's, carburetor cleaned and tuned, as I said when it's happy it runs great. I haven't been able to figure out any pattern so far as to when this happens. Any ideas appreciated.
 

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I know your frustration. It sounds like you have the fuel issues checked. I had the same problem. Died flat out just idling in the garage. Adjusted and cleaned the points , replaced the condenser twice, finally focused on the coil. Ordered a correct one ( just a couple of bucks more than a generic) And it works perfectly. Just replace it with a quality unit. They can be finicky when failing. You may be surprised. It's easily overlooked as they don't fail often but when they do, They don't go all at once. All the signs are there.
 
Ward,

Did you test the coil and determine that it was defective, or did you just replace it and luckily that was the problem.

Many years ago I replaced my coil not because I was having a problem, but because it was on the border line of being out of spec.


doug7740
1955 Thunderbird Blue
 
I've updated your subject to summarize your post.
 
Ward,

Did you test the coil and determine that it was defective, or did you just replace it and luckily that was the problem.

Many years ago I replaced my coil not because I was having a problem, but because it was on the border line of being out of spec.


doug7740
1955 Thunderbird Blue
I installed a new coil as that was the last thing it could be. Got it from casco and paid a few extra $ for an original style instead of generic. Fired it up and drove fine. Even better than before. I did do a bench test and both circuits had high resistance.
 
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@ion How about some more info please. Is it still 6volt? What type of carburetor? Original teapot or replacement? Thanks
 
sounds like a choke problem. Fast idle cam not set correctly?
Nope, electrical. I'm still going with the condenser and mostly the coil. All the symptoms I had and after some research it pretty much confirmed it. As I said before they don't go all at once but sneak up on you. Good insurance. Just make sure you buy a quality one. Mine was aftermarket that I put in 30+ years ago and was smaller than original. Had to wrap it with old school cloth electrical tape to fit tight.
 
Hi All, thanks for the replies! I'm still learning about some of this stuff. The system is 6V. Choke seems to work OK. I believe the carb is original, I did have that cleaned and tuned by a pro. The coil looks like an easy and inexpensive thing to replace so I will try it and report the results. I'm going to have to wait a few weeks to try it though, after return from vacation. Strangest thing about this problem is the bipolar behavior - sometimes starts and runs fine, sometimes starts and shows this low, rough idle which doesn't clear up even as the engines warms.
 
Hi All, thanks for the replies! I'm still learning about some of this stuff. The system is 6V. Choke seems to work OK. I believe the carb is original, I did have that cleaned and tuned by a pro. The coil looks like an easy and inexpensive thing to replace so I will try it and report the results. I'm going to have to wait a few weeks to try it though, after return from vacation. Strangest thing about this problem is the bipolar behavior - sometimes starts and runs fine, sometimes starts and shows this low, rough idle which doesn't clear up even as the engines warms.
Yup. Happened to me. Just idling in the garage and just died. Condensers will sometimes do that Just short out and die. Replaced the condenser and ran fine for a couple of days until it started stumbling while just cruising. Pulled over and it ran fine at an idle. next trip out was stumbling again and flat out died again. Opened the hood, let it cool a bit and it finally got me home. New original style coil and it runs perfectly again. My mechanic ( mustang restorer ) said the old school Ford coils were the best. Black with a yellow top and a little larger in diameter.
 
Hi All, thanks for the replies! I'm still learning about some of this stuff. The system is 6V. Choke seems to work OK. I believe the carb is original, I did have that cleaned and tuned by a pro. The coil looks like an easy and inexpensive thing to replace so I will try it and report the results. I'm going to have to wait a few weeks to try it though, after return from vacation. Strangest thing about this problem is the bipolar behavior - sometimes starts and runs fine, sometimes starts and shows this low, rough idle which doesn't clear up even as the engines warms.

Something else to consider... are you still running the original vacuum operated wipers (not electrical replacements)? If so, there's a possibility that the flapper valve in the wiper motor is leaking sporadically, causing you to have a vacuum leak, which causes the rough low idle and eventually stall. The wiper motor on my '57 does this sporadically. I've found that if the valve sticks open, I can usually hear the vacuum leak under the dash when I start it. When this happpens, I can turn the wipers on and off, and it will cause the flapper valve to close and eliminate the vacuum leak (for the time being). Good luck!
 
Hi All, thanks for the replies! I'm still learning about some of this stuff. The system is 6V. Choke seems to work OK. I believe the carb is original, I did have that cleaned and tuned by a pro. The coil looks like an easy and inexpensive thing to replace so I will try it and report the results. I'm going to have to wait a few weeks to try it though, after return from vacation. Strangest thing about this problem is the bipolar behavior - sometimes starts and runs fine, sometimes starts and shows this low, rough idle which doesn't clear up even as the engines warms.

The ignition coil is an amazing little pulse transformer that multiplies low voltage received from the battery or alternator to many thousands of volts when the breaker points open and close.

The coil contains a primary winding, a slot iron core, and a secondary winding. The high voltage output of the coil is directed to the appropriate spark plug by the distributor. Without this high voltage, there is no spark and, consequently, internal combustion cannot take place within the engine. The bottom line, simply put, is this: without spark, the engine doesn’t run. So if your T-Bird keeps cranking but won’t start, a bad coil may be the culprit.

After making sure that fuel is entering the engine, the next thing to check is that there is spark to ignite the fuel. Checking for spark is pretty easy to do. You simply pull a spark plug from the engine (or use a spare plug if you have one in your parts box, snap one of the plug wires onto it and make sure the shank of the plug is grounded against the engine block. Do not hold onto the spark plug with your bare hands unless you want to get a really nasty jolt. Spark plug boot pulling pliers or other insulated-handle pliers are a good thing to use for this purpose. Have someone crank the engine and observe the center electrode of the plug. If there’s sufficient voltage reaching the plug, you should see a bright blue spark jump across the gap of the electrode every time that cylinder fires. If you see no spark, the coil is a good thing to suspect next.

You’ll need a digital multimeter to check the resistance levels of your coil. The side terminals of the coil are marked positive (+) and negative (-) and these are where you can measure the resistance of the primary windings. Set the multimeter to the 200-ohm setting and attach the meter’s leads corresponding to the terminal markings, red being positive and black being negative. The typical resistance reading on the primary side is .3 to 2.0 ohms.

Next, you’ll want to measure the resistance of the secondary coil, and this is the real business-end of the coil. Switch the meter’s resistance range to the 20K-ohm setting and leave the negative (black) meter lead connected to the distributor negative post on the coil. Connect the red meter lead to the center terminal of the coil. The reading here should be 6 to 30K. If your coil reads under 6K, then chances are pretty good that this is the reason you’re not getting any spark or a very weak one. The coil should also be checked hot to insure that the circuit is not breaking down when it reaches operating temperature.

doug7740
1955 Thunderbird Blue
 
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Hi All, thanks for the replies! I'm still learning about some of this stuff. The system is 6V. Choke seems to work OK. I believe the carb is original, I did have that cleaned and tuned by a pro. The coil looks like an easy and inexpensive thing to replace so I will try it and report the results. I'm going to have to wait a few weeks to try it though, after return from vacation. Strangest thing about this problem is the bipolar behavior - sometimes starts and runs fine, sometimes starts and shows this low, rough idle which doesn't clear up even as the engines warms.
I suppose it could be electrical, but I'm back on the choke. Assuming it's an automatic choke, have you verified that the butterfly is in the closed position when you try to start it, and that it moves freely all the way to the closed position when you first depress the accelerator pedal for a cold start?
 
I wasn't sure where to put this latest post so I thought this may be a place to look.
If you have been following my posts, I've been fighting ignition issues. Rechecked the points, replaced the condenser, replaced the coil with a quality original style coil, and my last test drive almost made me stranded again. When over 1500rpm while driving it would hesitate and when I let off the throttle it would backfire ( never happened before ) but got me home.
Checked everything then noticed there was a small porcelain chunk laying inside (30+yo aftermarket) resistor. Apparently it overheated and failed with an intermittent connection. Got a new one on order but another week of not driving. Going to work with my liquid electrical tape and dress the wire connections while waiting.
 
I wasn't sure where to put this latest post so I thought this may be a place to look.
If you have been following my posts, I've been fighting ignition issues. Rechecked the points, replaced the condenser, replaced the coil with a quality original style coil, and my last test drive almost made me stranded again. When over 1500rpm while driving it would hesitate and when I let off the throttle it would backfire ( never happened before ) but got me home.
Checked everything then noticed there was a small porcelain chunk laying inside (30+yo aftermarket) resistor. Apparently it overheated and failed with an intermittent connection. Got a new one on order but another week of not driving. Going to work with my liquid electrical tape and dress the wire connections while waiting.
6 or 12 volt? 6 volt doesn't use a resisitor
 
Hi All, checking in with an update. Sorry for the delay, I've been out of town and didn't have much time to work on the car. Well, I changed the coil for a brand new flame thrower coil rated for the '55 tbird according to Larry's Thunderbird. Unfortunately it did not fix the problem. Fiddled with the wipers as per @Boozeman's suggestion but no noticeable difference there either. @64ZCODE mentioned the choke, but I don't see how that could be the problem, because in that case, at least after the engine warms up, it should run normally, right? On the 'good' days the choke works fine, starts open, closes down after a whlle of warming up just as it should. Spark plug wires may be old, but i don't see how they could cause an intermittent problem either. Back to the drawing board.

A couple of other clues: 1) this never happens when the car is warm. If It starts well and warms up, I can drive around town all day, turn the ignition off, on again, there will never be this problem. Only happens when it's cold. 2) really sounds like there are one or more cylinders not firing when I get the bad starts. Can't be sure though - is there a way to tell without removing the spark plugs?

Eventually I'll figure it out and post the answer here. Thanks for all your support so far.
 
Wires and/or plugs have been known to be intermittent
Especially plugs with maybe a small crack in the insulation
 
When it's running like it's misfiring ( if you can keep it running ) pull one spark plug wire at a time out of the distributor cap and see if it gets worse. Then you know that cylinder is working. If you can't detect any difference then you can narrow it down to the individual cylinder. Go through all 8. Another thing that often gets overlooked is the interior of the distributor cap. Make sure it's spotless. It's not uncommon for dust and other accumulations in the cap to offer the opportunity for the spark to run down the inside of the cap and short out the spark as a path of least resistance. especially if you live in a humid climate. Condensation and dust and dirt make a good conductor especially with the high voltage of the spark. Once warm the condensation evaporates and the spark jumps the gap and not down the inside of the cap. I've got a couple of stories that taught me that.
I'm going to install my new original style resistor this afternoon and will report my results.
 
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Hi All, checking in with an update. Sorry for the delay, I've been out of town and didn't have much time to work on the car. Well, I changed the coil for a brand new flame thrower coil rated for the '55 tbird according to Larry's Thunderbird. Unfortunately it did not fix the problem. Fiddled with the wipers as per @Boozeman's suggestion but no noticeable difference there either. @64ZCODE mentioned the choke, but I don't see how that could be the problem, because in that case, at least after the engine warms up, it should run normally, right? On the 'good' days the choke works fine, starts open, closes down after a whlle of warming up just as it should. Spark plug wires may be old, but i don't see how they could cause an intermittent problem either. Back to the drawing board.

A couple of other clues: 1) this never happens when the car is warm. If It starts well and warms up, I can drive around town all day, turn the ignition off, on again, there will never be this problem. Only happens when it's cold. 2) really sounds like there are one or more cylinders not firing when I get the bad starts. Can't be sure though - is there a way to tell without removing the spark plugs?

Eventually I'll figure it out and post the answer here. Thanks for all your support so far.
What you're describing re: the choke is the opposite of what should happen. The choke should be closed at a cold start, then open all the way as the engine warms up.
 
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